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Thread: Base gear and Range Drill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivienne View Post
    Ooops, forgot this.....yes they can. From my minimal experience with Keisers that were rolled out for and then put away at the end of class, you can get a big difference in the calibration of the bikes after a bit. I did notice that some of the members really favoured (as in got quite "assertive" about) grabbing the bikes they knew ran a bit easy. Every once in a while I would try to defuse an acrimonious moment (you don't expect a near punch-up at a Y) by mentioning that it's probably *better* to be on a bike that lies to you with a lower power reading/calorie burn than is real over one that lies in the other direction. That worked......NOT!
    I know which bike gives me the highest power level when I ride. So while some bikes may have me maxing out at 300 watts for 20 seconds, the bike I always try to get maxes me out at 600 watts for 20 seconds. I then tell some of my participants to try to match my wattage (well, I don't really, but I love that idea ).

    BTW, for reference, my outdoor threshold, FTP is 228 watts (when I am peak fitness in summer) and my max sustained wattage for 20 seconds is 482 watts.
    Work and train smart, not hard. But be smart enough to know that sometimes it does take hard work to accomplish your goals.

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  2. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleGuy View Post
    On the Keiser, I will do a 5 minute 'today's personal power test':
    After warm-up, stop pedalling.
    Move gear lever up and down quickly 2 to 3 times to zero out the computer.
    Ride as hard as you can, steady effort, steady cadence, for 5 minutes.
    Stop pedalling and the computer will flash average watts for the period since being zeroed out (in this case, 5 minutes).
    That number becomes the base for the rest of the class..
    Always met with a fair bit of resistance (no pun intended) to this action (the newer power meters on Schwinn etc. have a "stages" button that you can press and get a times average on the fly) Primarily because I could never wean folk away from the idea that the odometer reading on their bike wasn't actual mileage.......I'm surmising that most of the other instructors told them different and the majority voice won out. The old adage of folk preferring comfortable platitudes over cold hard facts, I guess.

    How do you manage to get the message across (that it's a maintenance guide) without launching into a lecture. It seems so self evident to me that it's measuring no more than the number of times the flywheel turns (and given the circumference of same can be neither miles nor kilometers) Just looking to be prepared in advance should our bikes with power actually materialise
    Last edited by Vivienne; 02-19-2016 at 07:07 AM. Reason: pore speling

  3. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivienne View Post
    How do you manage to get the message across (that it's a maintenance guide) without launching into a lecture. It seems so self evident to me that it's measuring no more than the number of times the flywheel turns (and given the circumference of same can be neither miles nor kilometers) Just looking to be prepared in advance should our bikes with power actually materialise
    I get this all the time also in the Keiser class - I just keep repeating over and over that the "mileage" is just a maintenance number for the bike and is not how far they've pedaled. It's just one of those things you keep saying like "shoulders down and back - not up around your ears."

    I like that 5 minute power test - I'm going to try it this Sunday along with - Viv - your marathon ride. I think that's a good ride to do the power thing with.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivienne View Post
    How do you manage to get the message across (that it's a maintenance guide) without launching into a lecture. It seems so self evident to me that it's measuring no more than the number of times the flywheel turns (and given the circumference of same can be neither miles nor kilometers) Just looking to be prepared in advance should our bikes with power actually materialise
    There's an odometer on the computer?

    I ignore it. I don't even mention it. I have participants focus on watts & RPM. That's all I talk about/mention.

    If someone does ask about the odometer I explain:
    • it is a maintenance measurement
    • it is measuring the rotations of the flywheel, not the amount of effort/work you are doing
    Work and train smart, not hard. But be smart enough to know that sometimes it does take hard work to accomplish your goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarthaK View Post

    I like that 5 minute power test - I'm going to try it this Sunday along with - Viv - your marathon ride. I think that's a good ride to do the power thing with.
    I'm really hoping the gym gets bikes with power because this Bad Boy will be on my to-do list.

    As I believe I mentioned, the class was mostly my regulars so they knew to "Listen to me now....." and, although they eventually admitted that they'd rushed out of the starting gate a bit too early, there wasn't the crash and burn that I'd hoped for when you have a bunch of youngish, new to my class, Y chromosome types who want a *GOOD* workout....I offered up the idea of all the stuff someone who GETZ IT 'RONG has to do when the "......believe me now" kicks in. As in, they've burned all their matches too soon, have to, not only fake it, but also amuse /distract themselves for the remaining *however* minutes. FWIW, I really do avoid mentioning that they should look in the mirror to see who may/possibly/ peut etre be responsible for such a choice.....but still.

    I work tremendously hard to get my class members to arrive at a point in their *journey* at the end of a 55 min class feeling good about what they accomplished.

    This week I did my Descending/Ascending/1:1 work recovery ratio ride (per Josh Taylor) and I had my BITCH scores from last week posted on the front mirrors to emphasize the effect of interval amplitude (I don't think this is my made up word like BITCH scores).....as in, if you want to hit the high notes #4 on the BITCH scale (5K and mile) you will only manage it if you recover at the #1 marathon pace. The option to *make your ride your own* is to move to the #3 and #2. Also a worthwhile training choice......same BITCH score at the end of the 40 min workout, but just a different training stimulus....

    ....or you can be a Libertarian

  6. #17
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    Besides the Keiser class, I also have a 45 min class with traditional Spin bikes and no power so do the RPE thing and always say "leave yourself something - don't blow it all on the first interval" - but there's always a few who are hanging over the handlebars somewhere in the middle. My Sunday riders are more friendly and responsive to stuff about "it's your ride" and "find your goals" etc - the 45 min crowd - not so much - or at least not that any of them ever say anything which is very disconcerting. They don't seem to appreciate the heart rate spiel. I don't know if it's because none of them know each other whereas on Sunday they all know each other and yak yak yak or if it's an age difference. I'm not sure. I only know that the some of the silent crowd like the class b/c there are a core 8-10 or so who have been returning every week, but I always have an anxiety attack right before class thinking that no one is showing up.

  7. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarthaK View Post
    I only know that the some of the silent crowd like the class b/c there are a core 8-10 or so who have been returning every week, but I always have an anxiety attack right before class thinking that no one is showing up.
    And so it might. It actually did happen to me a while back....I may very well have been part of the problem, mind, seeing as I was soooo accepting of folk rolling in 2...5....10 minutes late. I swear, I was walking out of class....with my gym bag totally packed and my *numbers* logged for gym management (zero!)....at 15 minutes past class start time and the "early" attendees were so totally gobsmacked that it has never, ever happened again.

  8. #19

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    Cycle Guy,

    Your power test and derived base power are intriguing. I'm thinking about how this number would be used in my class. Let's say one person derives 100 watts; a big dude derives 200. Where do you go from here? "For this song we're at out base power....next song we drop to 50%"........is it this sort of program? Does each person get the "same" workout as far as "effort" or "perceived exertion," whatever those terms really mean? And do you think there are any risks in asking the class to go to "maximum sustainable rate"? Thanks for any ideas.

    Despite my urging, I'm the only person who uses a heart rate monitor. Maybe there is a future in using power!

    Marc

    Marc

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc5 View Post
    Cycle Guy,

    Your power test and derived base power are intriguing. I'm thinking about how this number would be used in my class. Let's say one person derives 100 watts; a big dude derives 200. Where do you go from here? "For this song we're at out base power....next song we drop to 50%"........is it this sort of program? Does each person get the "same" workout as far as "effort" or "perceived exertion," whatever those terms really mean? And do you think there are any risks in asking the class to go to "maximum sustainable rate"? Thanks for any ideas.

    Despite my urging, I'm the only person who uses a heart rate monitor. Maybe there is a future in using power!

    Marc

    Marc
    Yes, that's pretty much it. Very simple.

    Participant A gets 100w; Participant B gets 200w. For the rest of the ride, that is their threshold.

    • I keep it pretty basic and sometimes skip the math. Sometimes over threshold, sometimes under it. Sometimes a bit, sometimes a lot.
    • Sometimes I will throw in some math - I want you to be x% under (or over).


    Everyone gets their workout, what they want/need/can do. For those that are interested in working, they will use the numbers as a guide.

    Is it the same for everyone? Probably not since everyone is different - but it is close enough for group fitness. I think creating something that will benefit everyone equally is getting into a training regime that is beyond group fitness and more into personal training/coaching. What people perceive as being effort is different from person to person. Each participant is unique in their ability. Some have a very shallow power curve; others will have a steeper power curve. Did they go easy on the base effort ride, or did they truly work as hard as they could? Could they have pushed harder than what they felt they could do. So many variables…

    Instructors are only human…

    I don't think there is extra risk asking a class to ride as hard as they can for five minutes. My opening statement to every class, EVERY CLASS, includes "…ride at an effort that is suitable for you for today for you have be doing and what you need to do after class…do not use me as an excuse for being too tired to do <insert something like…your household chores when you get home>…"
    Work and train smart, not hard. But be smart enough to know that sometimes it does take hard work to accomplish your goals.

    Follow me on Twitter

  10. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc5 View Post
    Despite my urging, I'm the only person who uses a heart rate monitor. Maybe there is a future in using power!

    Marc
    Marc.....I too teach at a gym where I'm usually the only one in class, any class, with an HRM. I did sub a class once and when I saw one of the members in the locker room the next day (before my class) and saw her putting on her HRM I assumed she was coming to mine.....but no, she wanted to see how many calories she burned in her Pilates class. I jest not.

    From my prior experience at a gym with Keisers, if I am also the lone *power* person I have a shrewd idea that I'll see a similar "meh" attitude to power. I actually do try the "pretend you have power" stuff....i.e. glom onto the prescribed cadence range and check the position of your little man on the resistance knob. Some get it......most don't seem to.
    Last edited by Vivienne; 03-08-2016 at 05:53 AM.

  11. Default

    Lots of great answers here. For my class and many are outside riders, our base is flat road. Flat road cadences are different for most people - but - a true flat road is the cadence you come back to every time. Sometimes I ask them to close their eyes and go find the right cadence and then make little adjustments with the gears. You'd be amazed - they almost always come back to the same place. I can find 95 rpms in my sleep.

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