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View Full Version : Say it isn't so Vino!!!



Funhog
07-24-2007, 04:19 PM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news2

The same kind of blood doping that Tyler Hamilton was accused of.

I just got back from my trip from the tour. It was phenomenal (more on that later). REgardless of what happens with this latest positive test, regardless of the cheaters (of which Michael Rasmussen in the yellow jersey is also under suspicion), this is still an amazing sport, and because of those cheaters, this sport will be cleaned up. Going to the Tour to ride is simply the most fun you can have on a bike, in some of the most beautiful places in the world, surrounded by amazing mountains, riding up the famous cols lined with people, at the world's largest tailgate party. I will continue to love the Tour, and to love cycling, and promote it, and take people to France to participate and experience it.

But damnit!! Vino, why did you have to do this to us? to the tour? to the world? His entire team was kicked off today - regardless of whether they were clean or not. And it was a wild-card team! Poor Kloden.

I should withhold my comment until his B sample is found positive... he's not guilty yet. But it's hard when you're so mad! Vinokourov signed the UCI "RIders' Commitment to New Cycling", which means that if guilty, he'll not only get the 2 year suspension, but also have to pay his entire 2007 salary as a financial penalty. And to think, that still didn't even deter him!!

Let's all hope Rassmussen has as disastrous a time trial as he had entrance into Paris in 2005 (when he fell 3 times for no apparent reason), because we don't want the yellow jersey soiled with suspicion! IMO, he should just let someone else win, or his "win" forever will be doubted. And besides, it could be a Discovery rider in yellow! Go Contador!

musicgal28
07-24-2007, 10:36 PM
Let me tell you how Vino has been such an inspiration to watch this season and follow. Him falling and needing stitches, and still riding makes me feel like cycling is something so special. This whole blood transfusion/doping scandal slightly dissapoints me. Its like having a Sesame Street character standing on the street smoking a cigarette. Hopefully he will not be convicted of doping and my faith in him will be restored.

Rasmussen has also been a great person to watch! Who knows what he has in store for the rest of the tour. All I know is I am obsessed with the coverage on versus, translating letour.com from French to English and following the profiles with my Spin classes. I think I will continue to be overly obsessed for awhile, even as the scandals play out.

jumpingbean
07-25-2007, 10:21 AM
I'm so happily envious of you Jen! You make me feel a little closer to the action on the tour! Loved your rides in Miami and I love reading your posts, I always learn something! Thanks for sharing with us! JB

keifer
07-25-2007, 11:49 AM
Yesterday had to be the biggest emotional rollercoaster from shock and disbelief to denial and then anger. This is the last thing 'our' sport needs after the past few years. Regardless of Vino's innocence or guilt the events of yesterday show that doping is never going to go away. The better the mouse trap built to catch dopers, the quicker they'll be to find new substances, ways, etc to get around being caught ... and to the smug folks who asked me what I use I causually told them you if you think any sport is totally pure you're living in a fantasy.

Todd S
07-25-2007, 04:38 PM
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news

eric8235
07-25-2007, 04:45 PM
Just when you thought the news couldn't get any worse. The Cofidis team pulled out too, because of a positive for testosterone. I'm heartsick, but I also believe that doping is going on at similar levels in every professional (and many high level amateur) sports these days.:mad: My first emotocon.

Funhog
07-25-2007, 06:55 PM
"The Chicken" isn't my favorite rider, and he's been shrouded in suspicion for a couple of weeks, with very weak explanations as to what happened and why he wasn't available for out-of-season testing. But his efforts the past few days have been spectacular, showing great skill, endurance and strength and power, desire, passion, and just great showmanship. The past few stages have been phenomenal, with the attacks by contador and the counter attacks by Rassmussen, and even Leipheimer doing a great job today, even after flatting out.

But I never thought it would come to this... I wonder how contador will feel getting the Maillot Jaune when he didn't really win it afterall!

not sure what I think of it yet - I'm still in shock.

But it also shows that teams are standing up to their riders and demanding honesty, which is a good thing. This too is another deterrent (or should be) to riders doping. Hey, they pay you to do what you do, you should not lie to them!

js

ChocolatePizzaRedWine
07-25-2007, 07:15 PM
Hey, they pay you to do what you do, you should not lie to them!


Absolutely, I agree. But they also pay you more if you can win for them, so I wonder how much of a double standard there is.

I guess it's just the cynic in me, but I don't think the riders are making their decisions without other input.

tracik
07-25-2007, 09:30 PM
"The Chicken" isn't my favorite rider, and he's been shrouded in suspicion for a couple of weeks, with very weak explanations as to what happened and why he wasn't available for out-of-season testing.

But it also shows that teams are standing up to their riders and demanding honesty, which is a good thing. This too is another deterrent (or should be) to riders doping. Hey, they pay you to do what you do, you should not lie to them!

js

Totally agree with you. I imagine it would be hard for a team with a rider in yellow for 10 days to pull him on their own. Hopefully other teams will start holding their riders more accountable. And, I'm with you on him not being a favorite. After that disasterous and amateurish TT the other year, it was hard for me to picture him as a TDF winner!:rolleyes:

Legspeed
07-25-2007, 10:35 PM
I wonder how contador will feel getting the Maillot Jaune when he didn't really win it afterall!

Probably about the same as Oscar Pereiro will feel when Lyin' Landis' appeal is finally denied.

Julibird
07-26-2007, 06:44 AM
Absolutely, I agree. But they also pay you more if you can win for them, so I wonder how much of a double standard there is.

But after the Landis disaster, which caused the sponsorship of his team to evaporate and his team to be disbanded, I wonder if this is changing. Sponsors want winners, but even more, they want to keep their names clean, I would imagine.

Here in the states, look what's happened to the advertising during TDF on Versus.

Legspeed
07-26-2007, 08:27 AM
But after the Landis disaster, which caused the sponsorship of his team to evaporate and his team to be disbanded, I wonder if this is changing. Sponsors want winners, but even more, they want to keep their names clean, I would imagine.

Here in the states, look what's happened to the advertising during TDF on Versus.

Well, you can't blame Phonak's dissolution solely on Landis. His was the 11th doping scandal in six years for the team, after all. Now, one might think the sponsors "want to keep their names clean." But do they?. Read this interview (http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/news/articles/10522.0.html) with Phonak CEO Andy Rihs. Remember Festina? Guess when their best ever revenues were realized. If you guessed 1998, the year the Festina team was tossed from the Tour, you are correct.

Phonak enjoyed similar success. Before their cycling sponsorship, they were virtually unknown in the North American market. Six years and eleven doping scandals later? A recognized brand and the third largest market share.

Proving once again, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Julibird
07-26-2007, 09:50 AM
Well, you can't blame Phonak's dissolution solely on Landis. His was the 11th doping scandal in six years for the team, after all. Now, one might think the sponsors "want to keep their names clean." But do they?. Read this interview (http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/news/articles/10522.0.html) with Phonak CEO Andy Rihs. Remember Festina? Guess when their best ever revenues were realized. If you guessed 1998, the year the Festina team was tossed from the Tour, you are correct.

Phonak enjoyed similar success. Before their cycling sponsorship, they were virtually unknown in the North American market. Six years and eleven doping scandals later? A recognized brand and the third largest market share.

Proving once again, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Wow. Just read the interview. Particularly struck by this statement:

"In a way I am glad that there is so much talk about doping in cycling, because it deters big corporations. If they would invest in cycling I wouldn't be able to afford it anymore. And, let's face it - in professional sports, where there is a lot of money involved, you need medical support".

If this is the driving principle for many of the sponsors, I guess we may see things sink lower than I imagined.

eric8235
07-26-2007, 10:29 AM
Probably about the same as Oscar Pereiro will feel when Lyin' Landis' appeal is finally denied.
At least in Contador's case he has ridden brilliantly and provided a lot of the excitement in this year's Tour. Pereiro will end up in yellow because he was in one break which was mistakenly allowed way too much time.

keifer
07-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Well you couldn't have shocked me more last night with the news on Rasmussen. Just home after class, I settled in front of the TV to catch the end of yesterdays stage, and was stunned to see the scroll on him.

Now to be fair, he has been tested throughout the tour and passed every one. However the fact that he lied about where he was when he skipped out on the out of season tests leaves me scratching my head as to what the hell he was thinking. So was he doping in the off-season, and if so why, and if not why miss mandatory testing which did nothing but cause suspicion during the tour.

He of all people, if he is innocent, should realize that the last thing the TdF needs is more doping allegations, which is now having an affect on sponsors. Already Adidas, T-Mobile, BMC, Skoda are seriously considering pulling out (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118540597003678252.html?mod=googlenews_wsj), but at least some sponsors (Trek, Nike Cervelo, and CSC (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3953602.html)) are saying they are staying stating that the fact that cycling is showing it is serious about getting rid of the dopers means they will stay.

As for Alberto Contador, he has shown that he deserves to be in yellow, and both he and Levi should feel good about showing us that yes you can ride clean, ride hard, and win.

rkstspin
07-26-2007, 06:33 PM
"..As for Alberto Contador, he has shown that he deserves to be in yellow, and both he and Levi should feel good about showing us that yes you can ride clean, ride hard, and win..."

I don't think we have any reason to believe they are clean at all. Clearly it takes something "extra" to ride out front and this has been the case for the last 15 years if not longer. The evidence is in the results (no need for the "Bonds-sian" defense of "hasn't tested positive yet").

To clean it up entirely you should punish the entire team and perhaps all race participants. That is if anybody is caught doping/drugging all riders on the team or in the event are disqualified and banned for life.

Draconian? Yes ... but you will end of with participants who are clean and trust one another. If you not you don't race because doing so risks your livelihood.

Legspeed
07-26-2007, 11:00 PM
As for Alberto Contador, he has shown that he deserves to be in yellow... showing us that yes you can ride clean, ride hard, and win.
You do realize that Contador was a client of Operacion Puerto's Dr. Fuentes, don't you?

Funhog
07-27-2007, 09:19 AM
You do realize that Contador was a client of Operacion Puerto's Dr. Fuentes, don't you?

This is the kind of statement that has gotten cycling into such a bad place - accusations without proof, and failure to explain what really happened. It reminds me of the Red Scare of the 50's, where people's names were associated with Communism for simply knowing or being in the same room with someone who was "definitely" on their "black list". Or the Inquisition. Someone, anyone, could make an accusation against you and "poof", you were gone.

Contador's name was added to the Operation Puerto list prematurely, which kept him out of the race last year. He was then taken off that list, "ooops, sorry Alberto, we spoke too soon, we messed up. Sorry it spoiled your dreams." He was one of those presumed guilty before any proof; due process has been dead in cycling for awhile.

I for one really like Contador, and consider him the next great hope. Especially after reading these pages:
http://www.cyclingfans.com/alberto_contador_tour_de_france_notebook_12.html

After reading this account, click on the numbers at the top of the page for some more heart wrenching articles, including an open letter from Alberto Contador after being wrongly pulled from the Tour last year (article #15) ad one written by his family (#16). You'll see the very sad results of tearing up an athlete without providing due process, and also the results on his family; an athlete who loves his sport, who has tried so hard to get where he is through hard work, committment, and even pain and suffering. One who believes in a clean sport.

Alberto will be in yellow in Paris, and he deserves it. He fought valiently and brilliantly on this year's Tour. I don't think I can say that for Pereira, if he ends up with the yellow jersy for 2006.

Jennifer

raptor
07-27-2007, 10:04 AM
The sad fact is, every rider claims to be clean, including the cheaters. There have been too many riders who struck me as very honorable competitors busted for doping over the years for me to accept anyone's history and public statements as proof of innocence. All we can do is appreciate what they're doing now, enjoy the competition on its own merits, and wait to see if any of the winners test positive.

It sadly wouldn't surprise me if Levi Leipheimer, Alberto Contador, Jens Voigt or anyone else tested positive and was deemed a cheater. But I don't care enough to stop watching bike racing.

Lynn