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Tolzer
04-13-2007, 12:48 PM
http://www.lesmills.com/files/globalcentral/Consumers/Programs/RPM/logo-rpm-small.png

Les Mills RPM™ is a 50-minute indoor cycling class based on outdoor riding. You ride to inspirational music over the equivalent of 20-25 kilometres of varied terrain, controlling the intensity of your workout with a resistance dial and pedal speed.

Check it out here:
http://www.lesmills.com/global/en/members/rpm/about-rpm.aspx (http://www.lesmills.com/global/en/members/rpm/about-rpm.aspx)

Tolzer ;)

EuroD
04-13-2007, 01:00 PM
Don't want to bash RPM but I know of a number of cycle instructors who tried it but couldn't come to terms with it because of it being so canned (the ride profile never changes - same elements always in the same order), that they left the clubs that had this program (I left as they were talking about it, as I saw the writing on the wall). The only instructors that I know who teach RPM (in my neck of the woods) are the ones who teach other LM formats.

At one of the clubs I teach, I have also seen what are new members to the club but old to me because of this program being brought in and the real-ride experience gone, as well as their membership there; this was one of the reasons cited. That I found quite interesting.

Spinnin' My Heart Out
04-13-2007, 05:31 PM
i taught at a former club(johnny g),,,they brought in LM,,,,,i tried it for 3 months and left,,,,,,,,no thanks,,,canned music is not my thing......

however,,,,,,it's quite successful at my former club.

thosknox
04-13-2007, 05:47 PM
I cringe every time I read a comment about rpm as it seems most comments come from riders who have had negative experiences.

I teach both formats. Both are cycling rides set to music. The terrain in rpm is dictated by the track order, i.e, warm-up, pace, hills, mixed terrain, etc. The track order remains the same for each ride and every ride is an interval ride. Both are indoor cycling rides set to music.

HOWEVER, an instructor with a library of rpm music can vary the music by using tracks interchangeably....a warm-up track from one release and a hill track from another.

The same instructors who buy a spinning cd and use the tracks in order and for every single ride would be equivalent to an rpm instructor using the same music every ride or a step instructor using the same music and same chorie each class. It happens rarely.

I currently teach at a gym that has both types of rides on its schedule. It works.

thosknox

tracik
04-13-2007, 09:54 PM
Just curious...my sister-in-law's gym switched to RPM (which hasn't thrilled her, by the way) but she'll do a class now and then. She was asking me about the purpose of something they were doing recently where they are "dipping" to the beat??? I got the impression from her explanation that you actually lean one side of your body downward on the pedal stroke. It sounded odd to me. Can anyone explain the point, or if maybe this is just an instructor trying to add some "creativity" to the routine?

How long does each release last for, anyway? I would have to say RPM is the most popular program in my area, but I have only sampled one RPM class. I'm MDA certified, and I love to plan my own thing, so I don't think it would be for me, but I'm glad it works for others.

Traci

thosknox
04-16-2007, 08:58 AM
Ahhh...dipping to the beat. I've never seen it in the chorie notes or dvd education. Must be creative license taken....typically frowned upon by those of us who try to maintain the integrity of any cycle program we are teaching.

The length of each rpm ride is approximately 50 mintues which includes warm-up and cool down.

thosknox

tracik
04-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Ahhh...dipping to the beat. I've never seen it in the chorie notes or dvd education. Must be creative license taken....typically frowned upon by those of us who try to maintain the integrity of any cycle program we are teaching.

The length of each rpm ride is approximately 50 mintues which includes warm-up and cool down.

thosknox


Glad to hear a program with such popularity isn't advocating something so odd! When I asked how long, I was actually referring to how many weeks the "release" was out for before a new one came? Just trying to understand the differences...especially since so many clubs around me are using RPM.

Thanks, thosknox!
Traci

ChocolatePizzaRedWine
04-16-2007, 02:53 PM
When I asked how long, I was actually referring to how many weeks the "release" was out for before a new one came?

A new release comes out every 3 months, but a rider won't (shouldn't!) hear the same 9 songs for that long.

Most clubs require instructors to teach the new release for a couple of weeks. After that, they can mix in stuff from one of the 35 back releases. That means that an instructor can choose between 35 songs for the warm-up, 35 different songs for pace practice, and 35 still different songs for hills, etc. The framework is always the same, but the workout doesn't have to be.

Hope this helps!

Sparky
04-16-2007, 03:20 PM
Cycling team:

I have taught at a total of 4 different health clubs over the past 6 years and have met approximately 40 or 50 different cycle instructors. Nearly ALL of them burn their own CDs for the music they play. Being forced into canned music is NOT the way to go,.... even if you have the flexibility to swap out different RPM tracks from prior releases to "assemble" a 50 minute ride. Regardless, using RPM, NONE of the songs were hand picked by the instructor. The flexibility of using the RPM approach is WAY TOO RESTRICTIVE. Each instructor has their own personality, style of teaching and musical tastes (and so do the riders),... so each instructor I know uses THEIR OWN music to craft their rides. And when a gym has several instructors doing this... a major strength of the cycle program is in the variety of music each instructors uses and the benefit goes directly to the riders. Now thats a win-win for everybody.

Bottom line, (again in my opinion) is that you want the flexibility and variety of non-canned tunes to craft the best rides you know how. If I were forced to use somebody else's music,.. I would NOT teach cycle classs and would probably NOT attend cycle classes either. find what works with your riders,.... and then run with it with all your heart and soul.

Sparky
West Chester, Pennsylvania

Robert
04-17-2007, 03:02 AM
I can see the pros and cons of RPM but, IMHO, I wouldn't want to be prevented from being able to play that funky New Age tune I heard while out shopping.

I'm sure we all some excellent tracks for IC, many of them not remotely on the radar of anyone in fitness - would you really want to depend on somebody at LM to dictate which music you should play?

Adrian Cronauer (sp?) is turning in his radio booth.....

FlyBy
04-26-2007, 03:15 PM
I was at a gym two years ago that had a spinning program comprised of both the LM's RPM and Johnny G-style rides. It was very successful because some members really enjoyed the (rigid) structure of the RPM, the consistency, and the launches (which were always "big scale"); similarly, the members who enjoyed more conventional, instructor-specific rides could continue with that style.

I tried RPM but couldn't find the love in it that I found, obviously, from the kind that I teach myself. However, I do teach some LM programs (BodyPump, and BodyJam) I enjoy them.

Becca713
04-27-2007, 08:08 PM
I think that you just have to understand RPM within the context of the Les Mills program. Each workout within Les Mills (RPM, Body Pump (weight lifting), Body Attack (high intensity cardio), etc) is specific music placed in a specifc order to meet specific training objectives with specific choreography. I'm Spin certified and have never taken RPM, but recently became Body Pump certified, and the Les Mills format makes a great deal of sense for weight lifting, at least. I'm not sure if I could go from teaching Spin (or "freestyle," as some call it) to RPM, but our members love, love, LOVE the structure in Body Pump, Attack, and Jam. I think that they like it because they know what's coming and can actually measure their progress by comparing present performance to past performance in the exact same activity.

I don't think one program is better than another. Some criticize RPM because "it's just an interval ride, every time," but you never know what sort of training members are doing outside of your class. Also, I have Spinners who refuse to do anything less than an all-out Race Day every single time they ride. It's not smart, but that's what they prefer. So they're not exactly receiving all of the benefits of a balanced Spinning program, either.

Just different strokes for different folks I guess.

Becca

Probie
05-05-2007, 06:02 AM
Just rode an RPM Master Class by THE Program Director - I have to tell you my emotions went from bored :rolleyes:to annoyed:mad: that he was talking so much and dictating so many changes in position, cadence and resistance.

My biggest criticism of the RPM program - oh here's my disclaimer I'm a Star 3 Spin Instructor and have been involved in the Spin program for almost 10 years AND A Les Mills Instructor - is that you NEVER have time to get into your ride or to develop any kind of 'endurance' for a position and/or heartrate.

I am also a huge 'pusher' of Heart Rate Training and Heart Rate Monitors and I found that I kept trying to figure out just 'where' I should be during this ride. Even if I ride without my monitor - which I do at times - I still appreciate someone coaching heart rates and perceived exertion - I felt a little lost during the RPM ride.

RPM is truly aerobics on the bike - catering to the majority of the gym crowd that has the attention span of a guppy (did that sound mean?) and no tolerance for the discipline of a Spin class - hence its popularity at many clubs.

Overall I did not enjoy the ride and just wanted it to be over! I'll take 5 minutes on a hill at 80% over any 5 minute chunk of an RPM class! ;)

b.c.kim
05-19-2007, 10:46 PM
Hello!
I have taught freestyle cycle since 1997 and was hesitant in taking RPM training, but am always open to more education! I teach 5 other les mills programs. After training, I was not awakened to new info, but I did understand more about hand positions, and have now lowered my handlebars to be level with my seat.
The manual has an abundance of great information and I do love teaching the program. Yes it is interval training mainly, but it also has opportunity for longer flat roads and hills. It is geared towards an all purpose ride and most of the women at my club are not outdoor riders. They are looking for fun, motivation, consistency and bang for their buck! So, the 50 minute ride, with a variety of terrain, built on bringing results, has been welcomed at our club. When taught well, the program is great for all levels of fitness. It doesn't hold standing positions too long, and it isn't so beat driven that you have to follow the BPM's (that are too fast) to match the music. The music is motivating and since i first saw RPM 2 and half years ago, has improved with new direction.

Personally, after teaching for many years, I find that having someone else make my profiles, that match the music perfectly, has been a godsend. It takes me hours to listen to songs and find a journey of contrast like is provided for me.
I can spend more time on my motivation etc. now!:)

nshoop
05-28-2007, 11:59 PM
I am wondering what the training required to get the music and course is. How much does it cost? etc.?

EuroD
05-29-2007, 12:36 PM
nshoop, the only way to take the training is through a club which already is LMI certified. The coordinator nominates you, thus allowing you to register for a course.

Hope this helps.

cafehead
06-06-2007, 02:21 AM
When I hear good instructor start talking about teaching "freestyle cycle" I sense we are a step closer to thinking of cycle instructors as teaching aerobics on a bike. The difference is subtle but that particular terminology is aerobics-based not cycling-based.

The strongest cycling classes for my money are those that take cycling training theory and practice and adapt these for a general population and a group fitness environment. Whilst the cookie cutter approach has some initial flavour; the sell, the delivery and the hype reminds me of a wonderful phrase, "all tip - no iceberg".

Letting someone else take responsibility for creating your classes is a trap. Self esteem can only go slowly downhill when you let yourself get spoonfed like a baby. Network here and you'll get better stuff than any "internationally renowned cycle choreographer", shit it's practically and oymoron.

cafehead

p.s. anyone seen the "radical fitness" bike offering "Top Ride(r)" - same same but slightly different is my guess...

b.c.kim
06-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Quoting Cafehead:
"When I hear good instructor start talking about teaching "freestyle cycle" I sense we are a step closer to thinking of cycle instructors as teaching aerobics on a bike. The difference is subtle but that particular terminology is aerobics-based not cycling-based".

With forums being 'opinion based', mixed with sound knowledge and expertise of course, I do appreciate yours cafehead. Do you come from an aerobic's background? Coming from an aerobics background, as I am, we do use terms such as freestyle to sometimes define building the class ourselves, compared to having a class developed for us, being pre-choreography! In my neck of the woods, aerobics came first, then the indoor cycle class.
Some of us group exercise (as we call it now) instructors did embark on the cycle path. We didn't have a lot of certifications, if any to choose from here in my part of Canada. We had to take our experience and research to learn the concept. I did, in fact, think it was aerobics on bike, at first. With no classes in our area to review and learn from, we did what many others were and still are doing. Push ups, figure eights, balance work, one arm, etc. Heck if I could do a mambo cha cha on the bike I would have.
With more time spent and research on sites such as this one and others, I learned there was more to cycling inside than trying to make the class 'fluffy'.
So, from there out goes the fluff and in comes more road appropriate profiles. Working with 'Spinning' type principles, technique and profiles I have been able to teach safe, effective, motivating,100% full and fun classes for the past 8years.

Quote:

"The strongest cycling classes for my money are those that take cycling training theory and practice and adapt these for a general population and a group fitness environment. Whilst the cookie cutter approach has some initial flavour; the sell, the delivery and the hype reminds me of a wonderful phrase, "all tip - no iceberg".

I understand your points here, and your first sentence is the key! This can be achieved through pre-choreography as well. As far as selling, IMHO you can only sell what you believe in and are passionate about, so each to their own on this one.
Quote:
"Letting someone else take responsibility for creating your classes is a trap. Self esteem can only go slowly downhill when you let yourself get spoonfed like a baby. Network here and you'll get better stuff than any "internationally renowned cycle choreographer", shit it's practically and oymoron."

Call it a trap or what you may, the participants at my club pay the $$. They would rather come to classes that are motivating, fun, and result oriented than hope that an instructors style, music choices, and profile are what they are looking for in a class. The pre-choreography does have its advantages.
As far as self esteem, never heard this type of statement before. Self esteem is within, and being confident about walking in and coaching a great class that you enjoy with your participants is the key(along with safety, sound knowledge of the bike, etc.).

Everyone has a different story and generalizing to say that networking here is the key to having 'better stuff' is only a piece of the whole. Some instructors don't have cycling as their end all be all. Some love the knowledge of this site, to learn and to grow, whilst instructing 4, 5, or more other formats that they spend quality time honing and preparing.

Do appreciate this site and all the contributors!
thanks:)

Jpgirl
06-29-2007, 08:04 AM
I just started teaching cycling after a long haitus. Our gym is starting to offer more and more LM programs. I'm in a quandry over the LM programs but especially RPM. I have over 15 years experience as a GroupX and persnal trainer. What I see in the industry now is a shortage of good experienced instructors. In an effort to get around this a lot of Group X managers are going with the LM programs because it's an easy way to train instructors. I've been a member of this gym for a year before I started teaching and half of the instructors were really bad. Because of the LM programs these instructors are better but not great. I like the LM program but not overly fond of RPM-the unchanging profiles order and every track in a mini ride and all of it being interval just doesn't suit me but I'm not saying it's a bad program. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm afraid that there won't be room for both in my club. The over all coordinator has expressed a desire to do nothing but LM programs as she's had a particularly hard time finding good cycling instructors. What I've seen occuring with the RPM here is that a lot of intructor personality is lost. We've got 3-4 awsome instructors and it's fun to go to their classes and see what each has come up with on any given day. I know it's a lot of work-I spend a lot of time choosing a ride profile and mixing music- but the people in my class have fun. For me, I won't take the RPM program-so I maybe out of a job when RPM launches, but it's my choice. The really sad thing is I'll only take it once a week-as I'm just not a huge fan and it doesn't achieve my outdoor cycling training.

abby_b_fit
07-02-2007, 11:03 PM
Just rode an RPM Master Class by THE Program Director - I have to tell you my emotions went from bored :rolleyes:to annoyed:mad: that he was talking so much and dictating so many changes in position, cadence and resistance.

My biggest criticism of the RPM program - oh here's my disclaimer I'm a Star 3 Spin Instructor and have been involved in the Spin program for almost 10 years AND A Les Mills Instructor - is that you NEVER have time to get into your ride or to develop any kind of 'endurance' for a position and/or heartrate.

I am also a huge 'pusher' of Heart Rate Training and Heart Rate Monitors and I found that I kept trying to figure out just 'where' I should be during this ride. Even if I ride without my monitor - which I do at times - I still appreciate someone coaching heart rates and perceived exertion - I felt a little lost during the RPM ride.

RPM is truly aerobics on the bike - catering to the majority of the gym crowd that has the attention span of a guppy (did that sound mean?) and no tolerance for the discipline of a Spin class - hence its popularity at many clubs.

Overall I did not enjoy the ride and just wanted it to be over! I'll take 5 minutes on a hill at 80% over any 5 minute chunk of an RPM class! ;)

AMEN!!!!


---A

cafehead
08-27-2007, 08:23 PM
That's it!

When members have no clue you can feed them this "Short attention Span", sound bite, channel surfing, quick fix.
For the longevity of the indoor cycling format, education and responsibility has to be better than average. That's why I believe self-esteem probably cannot grow when someone writes your class for you. It assumes you believe you're not good enough to do it well yourself. And you either "are", or you "can be", but not if you give the responsibility to a LesMills Master Cycle Presenter (who I suspect never rode a bike IRL).


AMEN!!!!


---A

SloSpin
08-28-2007, 10:09 AM
That's it!

When members have no clue you can feed them this "Short attention Span", sound bite, channel surfing, quick fix.
For the longevity of the indoor cycling format, education and responsibility has to be better than average. That's why I believe self-esteem probably cannot grow when someone writes your class for you. It assumes you believe you're not good enough to do it well yourself. And you either "are", or you "can be", but not if you give the responsibility to a LesMills Master Cycle Presenter (who I suspect never rode a bike IRL).

Do you know the master trainers of LMI? I think not. The program coach for RPM, Dan, not only rides IRL, but has won many a trophy for doing so.
Have you taken a LMI class, or gone through the training?
Mad Dog gives you 8 hours, and you are good to go. (Oh yeah, an open book test...) LMI has an 18 hour RPM training, and you have to send a video of yourself teaching to Pass, and MANY do not, and have to re-send (and no cost to them). Which do you think has a higher standard?
Members love knowing what the ride structure is going to be ahead of them. The cues, the "life" and the magic all come from the instructor, not from LMI. All they provide is the framework.
As for self esteem, mine has grown by teaching LMI program, and getting the support and feedback I never got from MDA.
There are two side to every story, so before you go bashing a program, do your homework.
Peace.

EuroD
08-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Slospin you said "Members love knowing what the ride structure is going to be ahead of them. The cues, the "life" and the magic all come from the instructor, not from LMI. All they provide is the framework."

Actually, they provide you with the music, and a DVD how it is to be used. They even provide you with recommended language. That's more than framework.

Yes, members do, and many of us here, provide our riders with the ride structure. Maybe you've missed all the profiles that have been painstakingly posted by Patrick Schutte, Bill Pierce, college Patrick, Jennifer Sage, Jennifer Klau, Cheeze, do I have to continue to list everyone, for you to appreicate that it's NOT exclusive to LMI nor BTSfor that matter. It is the instructor in Spinning who CHOOSES to provide his/her riders with information, LMI tells you, you have to do it - that's the program.

I have taken LMI classes, most formats in fact, and it is the sole reason I CHOOSE not to become certified in them because I do not want to have MY creativity taken away.

Being given a ride does up a person's self-esteem (sure they don't have to use their creative process, and if people don't like it, they can blame that particular LMI release), however, we who choose to use our creative energy see our own work, not just our personality.

Video taping yourself teaching can be done by anyone, it doesn't take an LMI directive to make it happen. The video replaces an on the spot practical - you get time to practice and get your 'show' to what they consider acceptable.

Finally, maybe you didn't read the manual in detail but MDA DOES expect you to stay certified through taking their online courses, and attending workshops and conferences.

SloSpin
08-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Dear Euro D,
For the record, I am a Star 3 Spinning instructor, so I know very well how Mad Dog works. Thanks. Structure has to do with knowing that there is a hill in track 4 EVERY time and a big push in track 7, so the ROAD is the same, but the music and cues differ. Oh, and yes, I have read the profiles, again, thanks.
Rather than get into a war of words, let me just ask, for those of you who don't find the benefit of programs like RPM, why do you read and post here? :)

ChocolatePizzaRedWine
08-29-2007, 08:02 PM
That's why I believe self-esteem probably cannot grow when someone writes your class for you. It assumes you believe you're not good enough to do it well yourself.

Hmmm...

When we built our house, we worked with an architect to do the design. I probably could have done it, but it would not have been as good because I lack the experience. My self-esteem doesn't suffer.

Every week, a cleaning lady comes to my house. She cleans, and does a better job that I would do because she *likes* it. My self-esteem doesn't suffer.

In fact, I really enjoy teaching pre-choreographed classes because I feel *so* successful while doing them. It has built my self-esteem rather that inhibiting it. I can concentrate on and enhance my strengths (like cuing and motivating) rather than struggle with my weaknesses (like class design). This lets me be good at the things that I'm really passionate about, and leaves the rest to people who are talented in those areas.

I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Check out this_book (http://www.amazon.com/Discover-Your-Strengths-Marcus-Buckingham/dp/0743201140/ref=pd_sim_b_1/105-9788304-8325201?ie=UTF8&qid=1188434890&sr=8-3). There's a whole movement underway to let people do what they are good at rather than to try to correct their weaknesses.

Your mileage may vary...

EuroD
08-30-2007, 12:50 PM
Dear SloSpin,

I understand your concerns.

I graciously apologize for any misconception that was presented as to your ability, capability or professionalism.

From this moment forward, I shall no longer provide any responses to the words RPM.

Yours sincerely,
EuroD

Jpgirl
09-03-2007, 02:39 PM
I have a question. I'm looking at the RPM program. I'm certified through Schwinn-I've been a group ex/personal trainer for over 13 years and an outdoor cyclist for 10-serious at it for 2. I'm doing the RPM training because our club is going to that format for half the classes on the schedule. I love choreographing my own but feel it's a good business decision to do the RPM so I don't risk loosing classes to other RPM instructors. Here's my question....
On Release #36 (just out) on the speed interval track (Only if I-Track #6) it states that the RPM is 140-with some work at 1/2 and 1/1. The BPM is 140. I KNOW I don't do 140 rpms outside-I struggle at 110-my comfy spot is 85-90. So I know there's no way I'll be able to demo that for class. So I played the dvd and paced my legs to the master instructor's. He was doing 100 rpm. So does anyone have an explanation? Do they really hold to that 1/1 when testing. I hope they don't because they're not doing 140 RPM in the dvd. Are they confusing BPMs with RPMs? Yes I do know that a 80 BPM can be a 80 RPM or a 40 RPM or even a 60. I'm talking about these higher BPM's/RPMs. Sorry about being so long winded but thanks for any imput

b.c.kim
09-03-2007, 04:36 PM
Hi Jpgirl!
You are not long winded!
The BPM's and RPM's are only followed 1/1 on songs 3 (hill), song 4 only for the standing climb sections, 5 (interval) and 7(mountain climb). So.... when you look at the notes and see the 1/1 as in Speed work track 6, it is subjective. One individual's 1/1 will be different from another. 1/1 refers to Top Pace, 1/2+ would be 3/4 pace and 1/2 would be an individuals half pace.
What the 1/1, 1/2, etc. are meant to refer to in song 2, is increasing resistance with speed to work the cadence ladder.
When you take the training it will all be covered!
Good Luck, have fun!
My peeps love RPM!
take care
kim;)

cafehead
09-03-2007, 05:56 PM
1. The cleaning lady cleans the house because she *likes* it. Surely, you are kidding yourself. If the servant or the slaves appear to be happy it's because smiling, happy, laughing, dancing is in the job description 'massa'. Your self-esteem should suffer. Taking advantage of the socio-economically weak to do your dirty work should not be considered charitable. I'm not saying it's absolutely evil but it's not exactly Mother Theresa.
2. As for your book, there are also books on the merits of running a country along race lines. Just because others think something doesn't make it even slightly more right. Really!? A movement is afoot to not correct your weaknesses? That'll make for some interesting approaches to life, sport, work etc... what a joke. "What ever you do, don't do your best. All of your problems will cease to exist if you follow the path of the least resistence"
3. The people choreographing cycling classes for you are not talented cycling class choreographers. Why? Because

a) choreography is for dance and cycling is not dancing. Classes should not be considered merely a series of movements. They are specific interventions designed (each one) to elicit a specific reaction from the anatomy and physiology of the rider.
b) even conceding "a)" their 'choreographic elements' include cadences which are unsustainable by a general population (GP) on a bike AND have limited benefit in a cycling for GP (compared to what can be done with a lower cadence).So where's the talent.

4. If you can't see 1., 2. and 3., it might be because you're letting the cleaning lady design your house while the architect is drinking your beer.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-you. I'm anti-lazy class design. I'm anti-stupid. I'm anti-thoughtlessness.

Cycling classes can be deeply engaging. RPM classes cannot.



Hmmm...

When we built our house, we worked with an architect to do the design. I probably could have done it, but it would not have been as good because I lack the experience. My self-esteem doesn't suffer.

Every week, a cleaning lady comes to my house. She cleans, and does a better job that I would do because she *likes* it. My self-esteem doesn't suffer.

In fact, I really enjoy teaching pre-choreographed classes because I feel *so* successful while doing them. It has built my self-esteem rather that inhibiting it. I can concentrate on and enhance my strengths (like cuing and motivating) rather than struggle with my weaknesses (like class design). This lets me be good at the things that I'm really passionate about, and leaves the rest to people who are talented in those areas.

I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Check out this_book (http://www.amazon.com/Discover-Your-Strengths-Marcus-Buckingham/dp/0743201140/ref=pd_sim_b_1/105-9788304-8325201?ie=UTF8&qid=1188434890&sr=8-3). There's a whole movement underway to let people do what they are good at rather than to try to correct their weaknesses.

Your mileage may vary...

cafehead
09-03-2007, 06:07 PM
Why would the workbook prescribe 140RPM and the MI ride at 100RPM? On this occasion the MI has done the sensible thing and ignored a silly prescription.


I have a question. I love choreographing my own but feel it's a good business decision to do the RPM so I don't risk loosing classes to other RPM instructors. Here's my question....
On Release #36 (just out) on the speed interval track (Only if I-Track #6) it states that the RPM is 140-with some work at 1/2 and 1/1. The BPM is 140. I KNOW I don't do 140 rpms outside-I struggle at 110-my comfy spot is 85-90. So I know there's no way I'll be able to demo that for class. So I played the dvd and paced my legs to the master instructor's. He was doing 100 rpm. So does anyone have an explanation? Do they really hold to that 1/1 when testing. I hope they don't because they're not doing 140 RPM in the dvd. Are they confusing BPMs with RPMs? Yes I do know that a 80 BPM can be a 80 RPM or a 40 RPM or even a 60. I'm talking about these higher BPM's/RPMs. Sorry about being so long winded but thanks for any imput

cafehead
09-03-2007, 06:33 PM
Homework? Have I done my homework. Oh yes indeed. Plenty of homework on Les Mills RPM.

I do know your precious MI crew as it happens (I'm from New Zealand) and Dan is the only one who has been anywhere near a bike (and he's not from NZ). When you see them lined up together demonstrating, Dan looks like a rider and most of the rest of them demonstrate their almost complete lack of understanding about cycling with every pedal stroke. I kid you not. I cringed every time Dan got off the lead bike and the curly haired Maroi bloke got on. A performer he is. A cycle instructor he may pass off as. A master cycle instructor he is not.

The difference is stark.

I have taken numerous LMI classes and applaude Pump, Step, Attack. Balance is a little sucky and every RPM class has been horrible.

One of my favourite cycle instructors moved to a State where RPM was the only thing he could teach. He trained. He worked. He was invited to the MI tryouts and when I next saw him was on a probation period to be a MI. I did his RPM class and if it hadn't been him, I'd have walked out. The people in his class were quite happy. It was full. But before he was considered brilliant. Now he's considered merely a peg (LMI) to go in a hole (6pm cycle slot).

Minor point: the video - getting people to conform to a standard which is awful is no victory.

So what do you think, Slo? Want to see more evidence of my homework? There is plenty plenty more where that came from. I am so all over this... Don't be so starstruck. These guys are prepackaged rubbish. Like processed cheese compared to Brie.


Do you know the master trainers of LMI? I think not. The program coach for RPM, Dan, not only rides IRL, but has won many a trophy for doing so.
Have you taken a LMI class, or gone through the training?
Mad Dog gives you 8 hours, and you are good to go. (Oh yeah, an open book test...) LMI has an 18 hour RPM training, and you have to send a video of yourself teaching to Pass, and MANY do not, and have to re-send (and no cost to them). Which do you think has a higher standard?
Members love knowing what the ride structure is going to be ahead of them. The cues, the "life" and the magic all come from the instructor, not from LMI. All they provide is the framework.
As for self esteem, mine has grown by teaching LMI program, and getting the support and feedback I never got from MDA.
There are two side to every story, so before you go bashing a program, do your homework.
Peace.

Jpgirl
09-03-2007, 07:18 PM
Thanks for the answers! I thought it had to be subjective..I don't know anyone here-clients, instructors or outdoor cyclists that go 140 RPM.
I am trying to be opened minded. I understand the need for choreopgraphed programs-I travel with my dh and have not come accross a good instructor yet. I came from a generation where instructors were mentored and had to put in TONS of time to perfect their skills. Apparently the ball was dropped some where along the lines and the upcoming instructors are not being mentored. I know they can't get this in one weekend either. I will take the training and then decide-if I find that the program goes against what I've researched and been trained in then I'll have to drop it. I am relieved that the MI wasn't doing 140RPM and that the pace is subjective. I always go back to my Tom Purvis training that I apply to every class design I do or participate in, WHY? Luckily we will continue to offer freestyle (not a great name as I design each and every class I do) so I won't be out in the cold. Most of the clubs around here are LM. To be honest, I'd rather see RPM than some of the awful classes I've been to travelling. Thanks again

cafehead
09-03-2007, 07:49 PM
I hear you. I have done classes that were way worse than any of the RPM classes that I didn't like. Worse b/c they were pointless with chunky safety oversights and outright contraindicated stuff. That's limited in RPM (and perhaps Dan is doing some ironing out) but there still appears to exist some crazy stuff like DO NOT get off your bike to teach. I mean what's that about? And the "over the top" aero style hand positions. Aero for stationary bikes? Silly stuff.

I always apply this test
a) what is the upside, b) what is the downside.
Is a > b,
If yes, GO.
If no, STOP.

But that's a choice I get for taking my own advice instead of a prepackaged "cycling solution".


Thanks for the answers! I thought it had to be subjective..I don't know anyone here-clients, instructors or outdoor cyclists that go 140 RPM.
I am trying to be opened minded. I understand the need for choreopgraphed programs-I travel with my dh and have not come accross a good instructor yet. I came from a generation where instructors were mentored and had to put in TONS of time to perfect their skills. Apparently the ball was dropped some where along the lines and the upcoming instructors are not being mentored. I know they can't get this in one weekend either. I will take the training and then decide-if I find that the program goes against what I've researched and been trained in then I'll have to drop it. I am relieved that the MI wasn't doing 140RPM and that the pace is subjective. I always go back to my Tom Purvis training that I apply to every class design I do or participate in, WHY? Luckily we will continue to offer freestyle (not a great name as I design each and every class I do) so I won't be out in the cold. Most of the clubs around here are LM. To be honest, I'd rather see RPM than some of the awful classes I've been to travelling. Thanks again

b.c.kim
09-03-2007, 07:52 PM
the workbook doesn't prescribe 140, it just states the BPM of the song!!!

cafehead
09-03-2007, 08:13 PM
Is it not prescribed that "thou shalt ride on the beat"? That has been my experience as an attendee of said classes... Is this perhaps a misinterpretation by my class leaders?

the workbook doesn't prescribe 140, it just states the BPM of the song!!!

b.c.kim
09-03-2007, 10:18 PM
my former reply stated that the beat is prescribed cadence for song 3, 5 and 7 and the hills on 4.


The BPM's and RPM's are only followed 1/1 on songs 3 (hill), song 4 only for the standing climb sections, 5 (interval) and 7(mountain climb). So.... when you look at the notes and see the 1/1 as in Speed work track 6, it is subjective. One individual's 1/1 will be different from another. 1/1 refers to Top Pace, 1/2+ would be 3/4 pace and 1/2 would be an individuals half pace.
What the 1/1, 1/2, etc. are meant to refer to in song 2, is increasing resistance with speed to work the cadence ladder.
take care
kim

Jpgirl
09-04-2007, 08:15 AM
Wait.. I'm looking at Release 36. In the choreography notes at the top of each page by the track # and the song title there's a scale ratio. On #6 it says Speed Work-1/1=140rpm. It does NOT say BPM. I know the difference-I've been an instructor for a long time. Now conincidently the song is 140BPM. I counted it and my Mixmeister program counted it at 140. See... there's the confusion for me-the standard in the indoor cycling community is using BPM then finding the RPM by halving,doubling,quartering-whatever. I know I'll find out at the training-just trying to get a head start-we've got a lot of newbies who've never taught anything(yeah I know don't go there with me)and I'm trying to learn the choreography so I can help them out with the basics of instructing so they'll pass. They're good students and I want to mentor them into good instructors so they won't have to just teach LM. Like I said I don't begrudge LM-I see a distinct need for them, but I'm not happy that LM is so popular that they're squeezing out some of really good instructors. I fought taking RPM (because I love the creativity of designing my own classes) but I don't want to loose my primo class time to another instructor because he/she teaches RPM and I don't. I put hard work into my designing-it takes me twice as long to design a class as it does learning someone's choreography. I will tell you that I am definitely going to start mentoring wannabe instructors so that they can design their own classes and have a choice between someone else's choreography and theirs. Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it.
OK Kim I just reread the above post (like 3 times-it's still early:) and I see what you're saying. Guess my problem is..if it's subjective say so because I know of at least one instructor who's going to see that and try to get the class at 140 RPM. But I am putting the cart before the horse-because I'm borrowing the release before the training so it's not fair to assume they're trying to get us to ride at 140 RPM before I hear the lecture at training. Thanks again.

b.c.kim
09-04-2007, 09:10 AM
the RPM number was not a highlight of the training. We went over the songs where you follow the beat and were educated on the cadence ladder and the building of speed and intensity in songs where you don't follow the beat! YOu will have a different trainer than I, with more cycle background possibly, so this may be more of a high point to them, to reinfocrce the 1/1etc.
the trainers who led my weekend training may not have had a lot of "cycle" training outside LMI and most of the girls taking the training didn't have background on the bike!

The numbers at the top, in my mind are BPMs and I do not even look at them any differently. For me, coming from 7 years of indoor cycle experience, I was happy to know that we were only following the BPMs in certain songs, after reading the BPMs of each song.
I actually overlooked the RPM beside the number and am going to email the director and bring this to his attention.
I am riding on team RPM in Portland for the Lance Armstrong Foundation fundraiser and will be chatting with Dan (director) about this ! LMI loves feedback and this program is getting better.
I would not have taken and didnt take this training until this year because I was unsure of its quality. I have 5 other LMI certs and RPM was one I wasn't going to work towards. It has improved immensely since the changover of directors and I love teaching it and my participants love it too!

Jpgirl
09-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Thanks Kim!! For me being a roadie-I go by RPM while cycling in or outdoors so it threw me. As a group ex instructor I go by BPM in most classes and RPM AND BPM in indoor cycling.
The only other thing I came accross is where are they getting their exercise physiology? I believe they need to review "pulling up with the hamstring philosophy". I studied anatomy and physiology. The hamstring is resposible for knee flexion/hip extension-in cycling position the hamstring can not contract past 6:30 as the knee is in a position that is flexed and can not flex more (can't bring your foot to your butt in that riding position) and hip extension is limited by being seated and hinged. I know LM is not the only one teaching that. I got the hamstring info from Schwinn and didn't believe it until I researched it myself. Taking Tom Purvis's exercise labs a long time ago really helps in applying science to exercise. I praying that's not a non negeotiable cue-because I just can't say it if it ain't true.
Good luck on your ride!! How cool is that.

kkoplien
09-14-2007, 08:59 PM
Hi Everyone,

It's nice to see some geniune interest in RPM here instead of just bashing. I am MDA certified as well as LM RPM certified. Just to comment on a couple issues brought up here...

Cadence - I am recently certified and I do believe that - yes - way back when "thou shalt ride to the beat" even as high as 140 RPM was cued. This has changed in the last 3 years or so. For the tracks that involve speed, 1/2, 1/2+, and 1/1 refer to recovery pace, building pace, and top pace with control. These will be different for each rider. Are all instructors catching on yet? Probably not. I suppose the choreography notes will be changed in time as well. There is a thread about this on lesmills.com and Dan McD answers himself. Also the education session for release 34 covers it in detail.

Having said that, the 1/1 phases generally only last from 15-60 seconds and some riders may achieve 140 with control. Talking with Dan at a quarterly recently, he likened it to "spin-up" drills done by cyclists on the road where you pick an easy gear, a downhill grade, or draft behind a car and pedal up to 140, 150 or even higher. The idea being that if you can achieve that with control, than riding at normal top race cadences will become easier.

The climbs are generally 60-80 BPM/RPM and you are expected to ride to the beat there.

A few other recent changes - "hovers" have been removed (there is a thread about this as well at lesmills.com), "over the top" is simply "standing climb". "Aero Racing" still exists - what's wrong with a little racing imagery?

I suppose the manuals will be updated to reflect these changes.

Anyway - I love RPM and Dan McDonough has taken it in a good direction.

Hope this helps.

KK

Jpgirl
09-20-2007, 02:24 PM
Thank you soo much-that explains a lot. I'm not one to live and die by the beat in cycling,but was just wondering how it worked. I'm too analytical-come from a group ex background (13 years), personal trainer (11 years), outdoor cyclist (3 years). I'm taking RPM in Nov. but was just looking at the choreography notes for this release. Now it makes perfect sense.

kkoplien
09-20-2007, 04:00 PM
JPgirl,

Glad I could help. One other cadence I forgot to mention is 1/1+. I can't remember it it's in 36. I haven't started learning 36 yet - I've been focusing on new Bodypump. 1/1+ Is generally used in the climbs (tracks 3 and 7) and in the "Interval Track" (track 5). You're either climbing (around 80 RPM) or pushing heavy resistance on a flat (around 90-100 RPM). 1/1+ is a cue for a short burst of speed as when cresting a hill or attacking out of saddle on a flat.

Also - someone mentioned "Vertigo" in release 30 where the notes read 1/1=169. I do believe that is a typo. It should be 85 - or 84.5 to be exact. That's how it's presented on the DVD and it's how teach it. For what that's worth.

KK

Jpgirl
09-21-2007, 01:53 PM
Thanks again-now the day I can pedal 169RPM is the day I'm the first female in the Tour:p.
Another quick question-do you teach BodyCombat too?? Am considering taking that training-dh has a Blackbelt in Taekwondo so I'm familiar with the moves-I used to take extreme kickboxing at his club.
Thanks

kkoplien
09-21-2007, 02:20 PM
I don't teach Combat but I have seen it at the Quarterlies. It looks amazing - especially when you see people who are really good at it. Your familiarity with the moves would definitely give you a head start. A great place to go for info on all the LM programs is www.lesmills.com (http://www.lesmills.com) - Community - Forums. Have fun with your RPM training!

KK

PaulD
09-28-2007, 11:56 AM
About 6 months ago, having been a Spinning Instructor for years but also certified for Les Mills Body Pump, I started looking at RPM. I had been to a couple of classes a few years ago and didn't like it much. I also was sceptical about the idea of pre-choreographed rides, limited music choice etc.. However, I decided that I couldn't really judge without trying it. I decided to train as an RPM instructor. My thinking was that even if I hated it and decided not to teach RPM, I would learn something. Actually I learnt heaps. One thing I learnt is that RPM has changed beyond recognition from those classes I went to a few years ago.

I am now teaching Spinning and RPM. Most facilities where I teach are not licensed for RPM so there I teach Spinning. Other facilities have some classes designated as RPM and others as "Studio Cycle". So, I teach RPM where appropriate and my own thing otherwise. This combination is fantastic and I think make me a better instructor in both contexts.

Some of the comments on here make me think some people's perception is that Les Mills want instructors to train like robots. This is not true. Yes, they want you to stick to the choreography but they also encourage individuality and creativity in the use of language and non-verbal cues. In fact, not having to think about the music and the profle is very liberating in that respect.

The fact that with RPM (as all Les Mills Programmes) gives you the opportunity (at very low cost) to attend a master class 4 times per year (and the master instructors are phenomenal) and to have get 4 master classes per year on DVD (how great to be able to wind back and review what the instructor said or did) is a huge benefit in itself.

It's also interesting to see that participants love both types of IDC. Some have a preference but a lot like both (for different reasons).

Above all, I'd say that it's not a battle. Instead of Spinning or RPM how about Spinning and RPM.

JohnNYC
09-28-2007, 01:53 PM
This thread has made me interested in seeing an RPM class in action. I did a search on the lesmills.com website for locations in New York City and got the result "Sorry, no clubs matched your search criteria." Does anyone know if that's accurate? If so, I guess it goes to show you can't find everything in New York City. :D Which is a real bummer in this case. :cool:

abby_b_fit
09-29-2007, 05:35 AM
I just went to the MAQ for Les Mills. I took the RPM master Class. It's still not for me. No HRM (I wore mine) if the ride is done as prescribed it is a zone 4 ride with too little recovery every time you ride. I like endurance rides to start my training year and there is little or no room for this kind of training in this program.


just my $0.02.

---A

b.c.kim
10-02-2007, 03:37 PM
hello abby!
it is too bad that HRM was not present, because our latest education promotes HRM and also has a key at the bottom of notes where HR should be in each track. we were also given a 50% off coupon for Polar, as our last release was sponsored by Polar.
17 participants wore the monitor and they tracked their results. The average heart rate was 77.5% with women being at 76% and men at 80%.

Our latest education gave these results and also a lot of information on HRM and benefits of monitoring, overtraining symptoms, the benefits of each track in the class and why we promote active recovery in certain tracks with lower heart rates!

We were given cues to help our people understand the concept and apply to their workout, along with PE!!!
:D

abby_b_fit
10-02-2007, 11:04 PM
hello abby!
it is too bad that HRM was not present, because our latest education promotes HRM and also has a key at the bottom of notes where HR should be in each track. we were also given a 50% off coupon for Polar, as our last release was sponsored by Polar.
17 participants wore the monitor and they tracked their results. The average heart rate was 77.5% with women being at 76% and men at 80%.

Our latest education gave these results and also a lot of information on HRM and benefits of monitoring, overtraining symptoms, the benefits of each track in the class and why we promote active recovery in certain tracks with lower heart rates!

We were given cues to help our people understand the concept and apply to their workout, along with PE!!!
:D

I'm glad RPM is moving in this direction, but I have to say it was not obvious in the master class. Out of control cadence, and no cues about bouncing in the saddle and riding without enough resistance on the bike. These are just a few of my observations.

Thanks for the info. I'll check back at the next quarterly.

---A

SloSpin
10-03-2007, 09:50 AM
I'm glad RPM is moving in this direction, but I have to say it was not obvious in the master class. Out of control cadence, and no cues about bouncing in the saddle and riding without enough resistance on the bike. These are just a few of my observations.

Thanks for the info. I'll check back at the next quarterly.

---A

SAd to say, but I have seem Spin classes that had the same issues.
It is often as not the instructor rather than the program. Any program.

abby_b_fit
10-03-2007, 09:59 AM
SAd to say, but I have seem Spin classes that had the same issues.
It is often as not the instructor rather than the program. Any program.

Agreed, but this was a master class.

---A

PaulD
10-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Agreed, but this was a master class.

---A

All RPM classes are basically the same profile. In Spinning EZ terms I'd say it's about 15% Recovery, 40% Endurance, 30% Strength and 15% Intense Interval.... but it does depend how hard each person rides and I would always tell new people (or those coming back after a break) to back off so we get much more time in Endurance Zone.

Sure, people would get better results if they followed a proper periodised programme, but a lot of people dont have the patience, yet many of them will join a fun class and (safely) get health benefits.

The philosophy re HRM is that RPE is a good substitute for most people and less of a barrier because many/most will not pay out to buy a HRM. In fact, many people using HRM have their zones totally wrong because they use the age-based formula to get their max HR, which is hugely inaccurate for most people. People who use HRMs but with the EZs wrongly calibrated may be riding less effectively than people using RPE.

Spinning (when taught right) is certainly more soundly based in sports science, but you also have to get people in the door and keeping on coming back. I have seen clubs do this very successfully by having both Spinning and RPM classes on their tiemtable and thereby giving choice and variety......

PaulD
10-03-2007, 11:22 AM
I'm glad RPM is moving in this direction, but I have to say it was not obvious in the master class. Out of control cadence, and no cues about bouncing in the saddle and riding without enough resistance on the bike. These are just a few of my observations.

Thanks for the info. I'll check back at the next quarterly.

---A
By the way, it's really weird that there were no cues about cadence and not bouncing in the saddle. RPM does allow a much wider range of caedence than Spinning. Les Mills did research to show that cadences as high as 140 (for short busts) can be safe and effective. However, they all really drummed into me at module training and subsequent quarterly workshops, in the choregraphy notes and on the DVD about adding resistance to stabilise the hips, keeping in control, "biking to the beat" (on certain tracks) etc... Sounds like the master instructor was not doing it right. If you have the notes for the current release take a look and also at the DVD.

PaulD
10-03-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm glad RPM is moving in this direction, but I have to say it was not obvious in the master class. Out of control cadence, and no cues about bouncing in the saddle and riding without enough resistance on the bike. These are just a few of my observations.

Thanks for the info. I'll check back at the next quarterly.

---A
By the way, it's really weird that there were no cues about cadence and not bouncing in the saddle. RPM does allow a much wider range of caedence than Spinning. Les Mills did research to show that cadences as high as 140 (for short busts) can be safe and effective. However, they also really drummed into me at module training and subsequent quarterly workshops, in the choregraphy notes and on the DVD about adding resistance to stabilise the hips, keeping in control, "biking to the beat" (on certain tracks) etc... Sounds like the master instructor was not doing it right. If you have the notes for the current release take a look and also at the DVD.

abby_b_fit
10-04-2007, 03:10 PM
All RPM classes are basically the same profile. In Spinning EZ terms I'd say it's about 15% Recovery, 40% Endurance, 30% Strength and 15% Intense Interval.... but it does depend how hard each person rides and I would always tell new people (or those coming back after a break) to back off so we get much more time in Endurance Zone.

Sure, people would get better results if they followed a proper periodised programme, but a lot of people dont have the patience, yet many of them will join a fun class and (safely) get health benefits.

The philosophy re HRM is that RPE is a good substitute for most people and less of a barrier because many/most will not pay out to buy a HRM. In fact, many people using HRM have their zones totally wrong because they use the age-based formula to get their max HR, which is hugely inaccurate for most people. People who use HRMs but with the EZs wrongly calibrated may be riding less effectively than people using RPE.

Spinning (when taught right) is certainly more soundly based in sports science, but you also have to get people in the door and keeping on coming back. I have seen clubs do this very successfully by having both Spinning and RPM classes on their tiemtable and thereby giving choice and variety......

Let me say that I am not RPM certified. I went to this class to check it out because I think Les Mills is on to something with their Body Pump, body Attack, and Body Combat Programs. I wanted to see if I like RPM as well. For me, not so much. But that is just me.

These are all very good points. The HR Zones I was using in class were taken right from my VO2 max test that was done last winter. So my #'s were petty accurate. Doing the ride that I believe was coached in that Master class I spent most of my time in Zone 3. (zones being 1-4)So somewhere between 85-92% of my MHR. without enough recovery for that work load. Now, I know it's my ride but in this class it doesn't really feel like it. I did what I believe was expected of me. The thing that I don't like the most is that it is an Interval ride every time, but as I said this is just me. I can see the value of this program, I just don't see myself ever teaching it.

---A

PaulD
10-05-2007, 04:48 AM
Let me say that I am not RPM certified. I went to this class to check it out because I think Les Mills is on to something with their Body Pump, body Attack, and Body Combat Programs. I wanted to see if I like RPM as well. For me, not so much. But that is just me.

These are all very good points. The HR Zones I was using in class were taken right from my VO2 max test that was done last winter. So my #'s were petty accurate. Doing the ride that I believe was coached in that Master class I spent most of my time in Zone 3. (zones being 1-4)So somewhere between 85-92% of my MHR. without enough recovery for that work load. Now, I know it's my ride but in this class it doesn't really feel like it. I did what I believe was expected of me. The thing that I don't like the most is that it is an Interval ride every time, but as I said this is just me. I can see the value of this program, I just don't see myself ever teaching it.

---A

Its interesting about your HR. In the master class filmed in New Zealand each quarter they now sometimes connect everyone up to HRMs, monitor them and record the averages against max for each person. This allows them to see afterwards where the class was in terms of %HRM at each stage in the class and to publish the HR profiles to instructors. Although they peak at the levels you saw, they also dip much lower for extended periods. It sounds like maybe, in an attempt to be motivating, the instructor was pushing you too hard and not emphasising the "Comfortable" cue enough during recovery phases.

I agree the programme is not for everyone. I hated it at first but decided to press ahead with the instructor training as a learning experience. Now I love it, but I would not give up my Spinning for it!

SloSpin
10-05-2007, 09:34 AM
abby_b_fit -
You mention this being a "Master Class". Was it at a quarterly, and if so, where?
I would agree that staying in a range of 85-92 for the entire class is not optimal, nor the way RPM should be taught. That being said, I do find myself sometimes in this range for an entire ride, but there are reasons for it (Coaching etc.) and it's not intentional.

Not trying to convert you...;) Just making sure that other who read this understand that your experience is not what RPM is about.

PaulD -
Great response!

kkoplien
10-05-2007, 12:44 PM
Abby's description of "out of control cadences" and "no cues about bouncing in the saddle" puzzles me too. In the 8 hours + that we spent on our bikes during the two day RPM training module, proper form, technique, and eradicating the dreaded saddle bounce was our primary focus.

Also we are taught to make sure we coach the intesity levels - especially the recovery portions. Incidentally my wife is an assessor for several LM programs (she watches the videos that newly trained instructors are required to send in before that are considered certified and decides who passes). The assesment is based on a strict set of criteria and a form provided by Les Mills. On the new RPM form one of the Compulsory elements is coaching perceived exertion. If this is not done the person does not pass.

As far as high intensity at a Quarterly goes, I can see how that happens. Having been to several I can say that the LM quarterlies are like a big party for Les Mills instructors. Everyone is pumped and excited to be there - the music starts and it's hard to hold back.:D

KK

abby_b_fit
10-06-2007, 09:47 AM
Abby's description of "out of control cadences" and "no cues about bouncing in the saddle" puzzles me too. In the 8 hours + that we spent on our bikes during the two day RPM training module, proper form, technique, and eradicating the dreaded saddle bounce was our primary focus.

The presenter had control of her ride. That said, 2/3 of the room was not. Very high cadence bouncing all over the place and I heard no cues to correct this.




Also we are taught to make sure we coach the intesity levels - especially the recovery portions. Incidentally my wife is an assessor for several LM programs (she watches the videos that newly trained instructors are required to send in before that are considered certified and decides who passes). The assessment is based on a strict set of criteria and a form provided by Les Mills. On the new RPM form one of the Compulsory elements is coaching perceived exertion. If this is not done the person does not pass.
I am familiar with the assessment process. I just became BP certified. I know it is a very difficult training to go thought and that Les Mills hold there instructors to a very high standard. Perhaps I just disagree with cadence above 110 with the momentum of the fly wheel on this type of bike. I have found that very few people have the ability to push enough gear at a high cadence above 110/120 and stay in control and not bounce in the saddle. In addition it's just not realistic. When I ride out my cadence is never that high.
I did not feel intensity was made clear in this class.



As far as high intensity at a Quarterly goes, I can see how that happens. Having been to several I can say that the LM quarterlies are like a big party for Les Mills instructors. Everyone is pumped and excited to be there - the music starts and it's hard to hold back.:D
I can see how that can happen. It is truly a day to behold!:D


KK---A

abby_b_fit
10-06-2007, 10:55 AM
abby_b_fit -
You mention this being a "Master Class". Was it at a quarterly, and if so, where?
I would agree that staying in a range of 85-92 for the entire class is not optimal, nor the way RPM should be taught. That being said, I do find myself sometimes in this range for an entire ride, but there are reasons for it (Coaching etc.) and it's not intentional.

Not trying to convert you...;) Just making sure that other who read this understand that your experience is not what RPM is about.

PaulD -
Great response!

I understand and point well taken.

I haven't given up. I will try again @ the next Quarterly.


---A

tonietta
10-07-2007, 06:49 AM
Wow......

Members/clients? Are we there for them?

I've been in the fitness industry for over 20 years and have seen things come and go. Les Mills has it right and will continue to put out the best in group fitness for many years to come. They take into consideration every aspect of a "member's" workout - not an instructor's. Yes, instructors are fit, and able to handle more and capable of handling the everything about cycling (endurance, RPE, heart rate, blah, blah, blah). Les Mills makes it fun and safe for the MEMBER.

Take yourself out of the equation for a moment and think about the reason your there in the first place.

Just my opinion. Please don't be too tough on me :)

abby_b_fit
10-07-2007, 10:53 AM
Wow......

Members/clients? Are we there for them?

I've been in the fitness industry for over 20 years and have seen things come and go. Les Mills has it right and will continue to put out the best in group fitness for many years to come. They take into consideration every aspect of a "member's" workout - not an instructor's. Yes, instructors are fit, and able to handle more and capable of handling the everything about cycling (endurance, RPE, heart rate, blah, blah, blah). Les Mills makes it fun and safe for the MEMBER.

Take yourself out of the equation for a moment and think about the reason your there in the first place.

Just my opinion. Please don't be too tough on me :)

I went to this class to see if this was something that I would like to being to my member. As of right now not so much. I still like where it all began better.

---A

---A

Johnchristophersnow
10-08-2007, 12:30 PM
Hi All,
The snowman is back again. I have my 2 cents worth today at RPM. Well out of the blue I took an RPM ride this weekend. I say out of the blue because that's just what it was. She came into the studio and said surprise that's what we are doing today. Anyway the music is not bad at all. It can really get you going for a great workout that's for sure.
However you really have to be careful when you drop an intereval ride like that on people. The intenseity and cadence are pretty powerful and some people are going to have a problem with an intenseity that high. Granted people control their own ride but still you gotta be careful.

Aerobic foundation/base is a key point to have before even thinking of doing something like this. It's a lot of tempo stuff with banging music. Which do I like better?? I have to put Spinning first but RPM gets high marks for the music. Thats taht for that. Until the next time. Enjoy the ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JCS:D:D

tdeckert
10-08-2007, 02:11 PM
From what I've seen, RPM has 1 format and that's an Interval ride. There seems to be lack of guidelines around intensity and HR parameters.

But no matter who the certifying organization is, a poorly taught class is just a poorly class. If an instructor hasn't a clue what they are doing, it becomes a class lead by ego where the "Drill Sergeant" tries how many ways they can "break" someone.

Samurai Jack
10-08-2007, 05:43 PM
As the self proclaimed forum Samurai, I have to say there sure are some very passionate folks on the forum. It is good to see everyone expressing how they feel among friends. Face it, we will never all agree with each other, we should seek to understand though, each others point of view. Once you truly understand, then you can agree or disagree. What fun would it be if we always agreed with everything?

I have been fortunate to travel and visit some other clubs and experience other styles of instruction. Some very good, some equally as bad. The fact is, if you put your heart and soul into a class for your students, they will recognize it and love it. Your self esteem should not be a measure of how you felt your class went, rather how did your students feel? Are you a role model? Are you a mentor? Do you live the values you teach? The pedals only spin forward... (getting too deep here)

Have you made a difference in someone's life? If you teach a free form class or RPM, have you helped someone change for the better? Have you watched them transform? There are good instructors and ones that need help... Strive to be the best you can at what you do... help others along the way.

In Bushido,

JD

abby_b_fit
10-08-2007, 09:16 PM
As the self proclaimed forum Samurai, I have to say there sure are some very passionate folks on the forum. It is good to see everyone expressing how they feel among friends. Face it, we will never all agree with each other, we should seek to understand though, each others point of view. Once you truly understand, then you can agree or disagree. What fun would it be if we always agreed with everything?

I have been fortunate to travel and visit some other clubs and experience other styles of instruction. Some very good, some equally as bad. The fact is, if you put your heart and soul into a class for your students, they will recognize it and love it. Your self esteem should not be a measure of how you felt your class went, rather how did your students feel? Are you a role model? Are you a mentor? Do you live the values you teach? The pedals only spin forward... (getting too deep here)

Have you made a difference in someone's life? If you teach a free form class or RPM, have you helped someone change for the better? Have you watched them transform? There are good instructors and ones that need help... Strive to be the best you can at what you do... help others along the way.

In Bushido,

JD

Samurai,

Please have T check her PM's Please I have some thing there for her.

---A

Samurai Jack
10-08-2007, 10:22 PM
I will let her know...

JD

Jpgirl
10-11-2007, 11:41 AM
Glad to see conversation still going on about RPM. I'm taking the training in Nov.
I like what Paul D said- we instructors can teach both freestyle and RPM. I'm learning the choreography for the release and I have to say I appreciate the ease and simplicity of it.
I have my coordinator's word that we will keep both formats in our schedule. I'm not sure what I'd do if I could only teach RPM and to be honest I have a small (but ever growning:)) group of riders who love my barking dogs,honking horns,rain showers, ect to help motivate them through a ride. They like the entertainment factor. I ride with the morning group as a student and a lot of them are resistant to RPM, but we instructors are promoting RPM none the less.
We've got a good group going through this training. I'll be really curious to see how 2 people do in particular. They're long time students who have never taught and want to learn. I think it's going to be very overwhelming for them-trying to learn everything!! That's why I'm already working on the choreography so I can help them with music phrase counting and how to learn choreography.

Johnchristophersnow
10-21-2007, 06:38 PM
<P>Hi JPGirl,</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>I was wondering where the RPM training would be in November?? I kinda of backed into bringing the program to my gym if that makes any sense.&nbsp;I teach spin there now figured&nbsp;RPM would bring in more members.&nbsp;Well I'm in Mass.&nbsp; I hope the training is in Mass to but let me know when possible.&nbsp; Thanks</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>JCS</P>

Johnchristophersnow
10-21-2007, 06:53 PM
Hello All,

This is just me dropping my own 2 cents about RPM. The one and only supposed RPM ride I took was not much of anything. It felt like a Interval blast spinning style. The music was pretty cool, I will give it that much. I guess there's more to it some coaching, cueing etc. The person driving the ride kinda stunk so I guess we didnt see all it has to offer. Well let me know what you guys think about this. Talk to you later.

JCS

Jpgirl
10-30-2007, 11:20 AM
Welcome John. Go to the Les Mills site to find a training near you. I'm in Houston and our RPM training is in our club. Your impression of RPM is dead on. It's interval pure and simple-and that format doesn't change. That's one reason I don't want to teach the program exclusively. I have some roadies in my class and the love variety but they want to stay in their training program too and nothing but interval riding isn't going to cut it. I'm taking the training in 2 weeks and only want to teach this format once a week. I don't think the attendance is going to jump up with RPM-we have too many awesome cycling instructors in our club. But it is something different.
As far as the instructor stinking-just because she's certified through LM doesn't guarantee she's good-it just gaurantees she's competent to LM's standards. It takes a long time to gain that certain something that good instructors have-can't get it in a weekend.
Good luck if you decide to get the certification-I'll be curious to see how you like it. I'm looking forward and dreading it at the same time. I've got a lot of certifications under my belt and just not excited about getting another-but I realize that if I don't I could be shut out of a class or two, so....

cafehead
11-12-2007, 06:43 PM
I've got a lot of certifications under my belt and just not excited about getting another-but I realize that if I don't I could be shut out of a class or two, so....
So this is reasonable too. As instructors of cycling in Australia, we're getting inundated with RPM classes across timetables that used to be UNCHOREOGRAPHED (but still well planned) classes. So now to remain viable you have to pay the $400 or so to become RPM certified, then you have to go to a "quarterly workshop" at a cost of another $80 or so and buy either a CD or and DVD or both for yet another fee. My prices might be off and the frequency may have some choice in it but either way, that's a fair annual whack just to have someone "teach" the "new choreography". The members here at pedal-on (IMHO) do a better job for less. The problem for gym owners is they have demand for these classes and often not enough well trained people to deliver them. Plus our workforce is often mostly part-timers without (sometimes) the time or motivation to keep producing quality thought out classes. So Les Mills provide a "don't worry about it" solution. It offers the owners some certainty that all their instructors are doing something predictable and "researched". This is compelling for a gym owner. Bogus research sells many products. Any research that comes out with an answer that even short bursts of cadence ~140pm is either useful or sustainable is SUSPECT at best. A cadence of 140rpm on the big ring and small cog on my stock standard road bike is equivalent to a bike speed of 84km/hr. If you have participants capable of that speed, get them signed...

And while I think about it... I think I saw an Les Mills enthusiast suggest that as the average heart rate of one of these classes sat in an endurance zone range that this meant the class was suitable for base training. Of course base training averages must sit in base training zomes, but unless you know the variability of that number it means nothing. An interval class that spent the entire class shuttling between 60-90%MHR would generate an average around 75MHR. But it sure ain't a base builder.

However (and finally), let's not just bash Les Mills RPM. Rather, let's bash anything that rides in on the coat tails of something truly well thought out. Let's bash anything that pushes a great fitness training option into a sausage machine and starts pumping out turd shaped classes for the great unwashed.

Let's lift, people. Lift.

Jpgirl
11-13-2007, 08:43 AM
Well just completed the intitial training.
Cafehead-you make some very valid points about instrutors not having enough training and gyms not doing the training. Les Mills has been very successful at wrapping it in a nice neat package and presenting it to the gym owners who gobble it right up.
To be honest, I have to say for myself-I'm guilty of not helping the new generation get the knowledge and use it. I took a haitus. When I was new, our club's Group Fitness Director was responsible for seeing that I was trained and knowledgeable. I had to pass an audition and student teach before I got my own class-it took about 6 months. I then went for my ACE Certifications-followed by specialty certifications. I'm fortunate enough to have a thirst for knowledge and the ability to attend the IDEA World Fitness conference every year.
Now as I've slipped back into Group Ex I see that a lot of instructors aren't willing to put the time into learning the craft and the Gyms aren't willing to put the time and money into training their staff. I can see a need for Les Mills and I do not blame them for taking advantage of that need. The members are paying a high price (both financially and physically) for poor instructors.

Having said all that here's my take on this past weekend. There were 9 of us to begin-there was 1 no show. 4 out of the 9 were very experienced instructors, 3 had never taught anything before and 2 were fairly new (less than 3 years) to teaching and teaching only other Les Mills programs. One of us 4 very experienced instructors didn't show up the second day.

RPM did not present anything I had not already learned in Schwinn or any of the conferences I have attended for Group Fitness or Personal Training. There was only one point about bike set up that I disagreed with and will continue to use the method I've learned from Schwinn which is the exact same way my bike dude does it. Les Mills didn't make a huge mistake-I perfer to go over all the settings again after I make minor adjustments.

Program content was good and safe. I agree that RPM as we learned it in the weekend would be very tough for a beginner exerciser, BUT (and I asked) we should coach lighter resistance, slower leg speed, lower RPE and HR for deconditioned. There are only 3 tracks out of the 9 that actually ride to the beat of the music-they're the climbing/hill tracks and the RPM on those is 70-87. So that's not bad-I definitely can work with that as that's what I ride outside. The other tracks are speed/mixed terrain tracks and the highest one there is 140 RPM. BUT you don't ride to the music beat on those. You coach 2-3 different leg cadences AND you coach to the individuals to find their OWN 3 leg cadences-and with load and control of the flywheel. So it's not MY leg cadence of 85,100,110 but just slower,under top pace and top pace for each rider. I can do that. We did some drills where the trainer kept on me about going faster-I tend to love to live at 85 RPM-so the 110/120 was a bit out of my comfort zone. But she also got on the instructor who loves the fast cadence (110-130).

I felt really bad for the people who have never taught. Everything I've learned in the last 14 years they got thrown at them in 2 days-very overwhelming. Thankfully they will only be assessed on knowing the choreography, and their technique.

In conclusion, I came away realizing that I can teach this program and that I am allowed to interject my own personality and not just regurgitate choreography. I think that in some classes when RPM looks so "cookie cutter" it's because the instructor must be brand new and hasn't morphed into their instructor personalities. I could see a huge difference when an experienced instructor presented her track as opposed to a new instructor. You could also tell the difference when an instructor was an outdoor rider.

I agreed to take RPM if the Group Ex coordinator swore on her life to mix RPM with the freestyle. I'll teach RPM but only if I can keep my freestyle. I'm not exactly jumping for joy to teach somebody else's choreography but for me it's neccassary. A lot of gyms around here are going to Les Mills exclusively-and they need to-there are a LOT of bad instructors and a shortage of good ones. Believe me-I go to other classes in other gyms. Thankfully we are blessed with really good instructors at my particular gym so I'm not sure that RPM will bring in the masses.

The other thing that was reinforced for me this weekend was that only the cream of the crop come to sites like Pedal-on, or go to conferences, or seminars-and get continuing ed, and advice/support from their peers. And it's ok to not agree with every little piece of information that's presented to us.

Lastly, to summarized this epic novel......RPM will be added to my "toolbox" of teaching. It's not the only tool or even the biggest-but it is a tool and can and will be used.

cafehead
11-13-2007, 03:35 PM
That's an absolutely top quality post. Love your work.
Shayne

SloSpin
11-14-2007, 11:31 AM
jpgirl,
That was one awesome response!
Thank you for the time and thought. Your insights are wonderful.
D.

PaulD
11-19-2007, 03:59 AM
Well just completed the intitial training.
Cafehead-you make some very valid points about instrutors not having enough training and gyms not doing the training. Les Mills has been very successful at wrapping it in a nice neat package and presenting it to the gym owners who gobble it right up........

I am in a very similar position. I recently got certified for RPM, having been teaching Spining for years. I am now teaching 1 or 2 RPM classes per week but more Spinning. I agree with your perspectives 100%!

steven b
12-09-2007, 06:04 PM
RPM is a program that one needs to ride several times to see the benifits of why the program is designed as it is. I rode in spinning class for years and yes i got the cardio workout however I have lost 27 pounds and my strength and endurance has way more improved with RPM. I would suggest you all give another go.

cafehead
12-09-2007, 07:26 PM
RPM is a program that one needs to ride several times to see the benifits of why the program is designed as it is. I rode in spinning class for years and yes i got the cardio workout however I have lost 27 pounds and my strength and endurance has way more improved with RPM. I would suggest you all give another go.

I value a different opinion. But I like some substance. Unfortunately, this post simply says, "I don't have a clue" and adds nothing to the thread. If anyone feels the need to spout this claptrap then start a new thread called "empty testimonials".

Was that a bit harsh? :rolleyes:

NJSpiner
12-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Not wanting to start a war but, what he didn't tell you was that he is now an RPM instructor and most likely has finally taken the steps needed to lose that 27 lbs. :rolleyes: steven_b?

cafehead
12-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Some great things have arisen from conflict. Like, umm, guns. Ah well that's a bad example but mind control techniques and brainwashing! Those have both been really useful in my classes... "It's not pain you're feeling, it's growth - now smile, because you're getting better"