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View Full Version : Update on M3...without the meters yet



ACinNJ
02-20-2007, 02:25 PM
Some feedback from the members....many of them novices to riding the Spinner/IDC classes.

I took some time to explain the difference in the way the bike was designed versus the weighted flywheel. That any work pedaling would have to come from "you", there would be very little momentum. Most of the experienced riders noticied the difference particularly in lighter resistance periods, like warming up...recoveries and even riding faster cadences. Everyone looked to me to be in better control of their efforts.

Newbies seemed to be more able to adapt to standing. The problem of the flywheel bouncing them around does not seem to exist. They add, stand and seem in better control.

The electronics should arrive next week....more on that later.

kszspin
02-20-2007, 02:27 PM
Interesting stuff, thanks for the update. Keep on posting more about that. :)

Todd S
02-20-2007, 03:58 PM
For me, it's important that an indoor bike have a realistic, real bike road feel. I've never ridden one of these new Keiser bikes, but I would probably view minimal rotational inertia as a negative rather than a positive characteristic of the bike.

I'm a believer in riding the bike 'right'. I'm not a believer in taking away inertial effects so one 'has' to ride the bike right. If you've got a half ways accurate power meter, you're not going to be able to put decent power to the pedals while you're bouncing in the saddle anyway.

The PT300, on the other hand, has a nice and hefty 45lb flywheel.

Robert
02-22-2007, 10:59 AM
Mainly for Rick and Keith (britspin):

These will be launched in the UK at the Fitness Expo this Saturday - apparently they "require little or no maintenance".

Let's put together a whole load of detailed question to ask them! :D

Raindrop
02-26-2007, 12:41 AM
I just picked up four classes at a new facility with these bikes. I've only taught a couple of classes on them, but I love the way they feel. I ride outside...but ride IDC a whole lot more in the Winter, and these have the other bikes I'm currently using (Star Trac, Lemond) beat. We won't be getting the power meters (of this I'm sure), but the bikes are beautiful and have a very, very good response for indoor cycling.

britspin
03-11-2007, 12:35 PM
Well, I got to try the Keiser at Expo...brief but felt good, and I get to go on the 1 day training course on 24th March..with power meters so I'm told. So I will let you know.

Raindrop
03-17-2007, 09:26 PM
I've now been on these bikes for a month, leading four classes a week and I really, really like the bikes and the members agree. It's actually made it difficult to instruct at the other two facilities (one star trac, the other Lemond).

No, they don't feel like you're riding outside exactly...but name an indoor bike that does. I do notice that the members (a lot of them brand new to indoor or outdoor for that matter) aren't as free spinning on this bike as others.

I just don't have many complaints at this point, in fact, only one bike out of the 35 has developed "noises". This is a HUGE improvement over the other facilities where I've been lucky enough to be in on the ground floor of "bike debute".

Another positive is the resistance lever being within reach of your thumb (and I have very small hands). It allows you to micro adjust the resistance which many other bikes make you turn, turn, turn and then turn again, just to get the brake pad into contact with the wheel, and then another micro-adjustment can take you into "grind-land". Granted, the bikes are new, but the adjustment is very sensitive and allows very minute to vast changes without a huge amount of twisting and turning.

Don't worry. If the bikes turn out to fall apart in three months...I'll write about that too. I'm just really stoked about their performance to date.:)

Raindrop
04-15-2007, 10:47 PM
Todd S, I think if you rode these bikes you would find that they have a much more realistic road feel than all the other bikes with their 32- 42lb flywheels that pretty much pull your feet around the circle.

I've been dooing the IDC for over a decade and riding a bike since I was about 8 and with my limited experience judge this bike as way beyond all the other bikes I've ever taught on.

Now...as to how they hold up structurally, that remains to be seen, but I 've had full to capacity classes (five a week that I lead and at least 20 on the schedule) since the beginning of the year and so far they've performed perfectly. Out of the 35 bikes, only one had "issues" and for a brand new facility with new bikes I find that pretty amazing.

We haven't heard back from AJ about the meters so I can't speak to that. I know the faciltiy where I'm employed...meters will not be added so...?

ACinNJ
04-23-2007, 09:58 AM
Sorry...didn't see the additions here...

I've definitely incorporated the cadence meter, and turning the resistance control to specific settings, then asking if they can add to that to go ahead without dropping speed. From there, I have them monitor there power output number and correlate that to a perceived exertion description.

In several classes, I have done 30 and 90 second efforts asking them to "hammer or stomp" out for as hard as they can and monitor the output number.

At the end, they are all interested in the mileage, which is always different since a few come in 10 or 15 minutes earlier and start warming up before some others.

britspin
04-23-2007, 11:00 AM
I did the YMCA pause for hand gedtures to die down/Keiser course yesterday (Sun 22nd). Nothing new on the instruction front altho we did calf stretch on the pedals (when I say 'we' I mean them..the rest), we did a push your bum back 'hover' on a climb, we rode at 130+rpm, despite a pre course conversation about eradicating high revving. That aside, I am impressed, the fit was good, altho' the handlebars go up & away, with no fore & aft adjustment, but we were told that this will be a retro fit alteration coming soon, so full fore & aft saddle & handlebars..sweet.
Saddles waaaaaay too soft for me (sore nethers today), but can be switched out OK (I always carry my own saddle when I teach).
Resistance smooth & very adjustable, the electronics mark the 'gears' 1-22or 24 ( I forget..age), show cadence,HR, watts & cal per hour alternate, distance trip & total.
On the whole a great bike which we were on for a 45min+ class, plus sessions of about an hour each for familiarisation & profiles, and the assessment at the end so 3-4 hours between 10 & 4, and it seemed good..except the saddle.
We had no instruction on the power meter, or any of the electronics for that matter..thats an advanced module, but on the whole as mentioned, I am impressed.
The possible minus would be service...the resistance is altered via an internally routed cable, which will inevitably stretch & potentially need replacement, which would/could be a tricky job.
Any questions?

britspin
04-23-2007, 11:01 AM
Always read thru before posting..I mean 'hand gestures' you knew that right?

cervelo.speed
05-27-2007, 08:40 PM
i've got classes at two LAFitness clubs, one with the new M3, and one with the earlier bike version. i really like the M3's feel - except for the saddle and handlebar position. i think the handlebars come back too far, and make you feel a bit cramped, which causes you to adjust your other settings, but you get used to it. there is nothing you can do to make the saddle better, except to break it and replace it with one more "taint friendly"...

cycle momma
07-12-2007, 06:44 PM
Our YMCA just received a M3 for a demo bike to see how we like it. I rode it on Wed. and loved it. It was so much smoother than the Spinning bike we have. Everyone got a chance to get on and the biggest comment was that the seat was the best part. I loved having the lever for the gears instead of a turn knob. I would assume then that you could get your whole class close to the same resistance. One question I had about this bike would be about the computers. If you have these bikes lined up close together and most of the class is wearing HRM, how can it not pick up others sitting next to you?
Another question would be about the maintenance, have you had many problems with the bike or computer?

Thanks,
Cycle Momma

ACinNJ
07-13-2007, 12:20 PM
Remember, the most important function of the device is wattage and cadence. The HRM strap is only connected when you are engaged to the handlebars. The HR is really only for calibrating calories burned.

Power/wattage and cadence...are the 2 main things to focus on.

cycle momma
07-13-2007, 01:16 PM
Thanks AC...I didn't realize that about the HRM.

Does Keiser put on workshops?

Thanks,
Cycle Momma

ACinNJ
07-13-2007, 01:30 PM
If you're purchasing bikes with the computers, you should get a workshop from them also as part of the sale.

There are some design flaws in the M3's, check the post about the handle bar recall. Also, there are some flaws in bolt lengths for set up on the seat slider, and the friction tightening system for handlebar and seat post must be cared for by the instructor every class. No pop pins.

But..it's a very smooth riding bike and the magnetically calibrated flywheel is a great invention.

ACinNJ
07-13-2007, 04:33 PM
There is nothing new about it that isn't in books, and thanks to Todd S. I bought them, read them and got on track.

I did do an FTP test about a month ago. I interpreted a profile from the Coggin book, actually went and noted progress in wattage, computed averages on my lap top during and after the class and gave everyone a handout afterward with average performance figures for different effort levels. We use those numbers in subsequent interval classes and I'm planning another test ride in the first week of August.

I was literally exhusted after the class and I was never on the bike for a minute.