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veespin
02-09-2007, 02:54 PM
Had an interesting "heads-up" moment this am.

Called in at my "home" gym to pick up my paychecks and was waiting for the general manager to riffle through her assortment and a fellow instructor steps in to ask about the malfunctioning sound system. GM answers her and then launches into a questioning session about an injury that had supposedly happened in a class last week.

Seems the injured party had taken this instructor's class a couple of times already and last week had gotten hurt. The injury happened about 15 minutes into the class while the instructor was correcting a newbie's form and the injured party left class without saying a word (and apparently without anyone else either witnessing the incident or mentioning it to the instructor, either)

From all accounts, the member was partial to psychospinning without resistance and totally deaf to any instructions to add on/follow my leg speed....even after a series of cadence checks and reckons that when she came up out of the saddle she slipped and landed with such force on the nose of the saddle (had a good out of saddle position, at least) that she started bleeding "down below" and had to visit her gynaecologist.

The GM appears to have had a couple of conversations with the woman during the week and Ms. Psychospin has been talking to her friends (who're instructors) and is now aware that you're not supposed to spin away with no resisitance and feels that the instructor was "incompetent in allowing this to happen" Hmmmm....wonder who's next on her list to consult with.

It actually took a while for this conversation to sink in else I would've found a way to make a diplomatic exit but I'm sort of glad I didn't, because I got a glimpse of how the person who might be fielding a complaint about me might handle it and I didn't care for the picture. I got the distinct impression that my colleague was being accused. I'm also happy to have been able to stick my oar in and add a bit of a defense.

So, in addition to "Listen now....believe me later" I'm adding "If your legs are going faster than mine.....add on resistence for a safe, effective ride. If your neighbour's legs are going faster than mine.....cough loudly so we have witnesses to the fact that there's an injury waiting to happen from choice!!!

I subscribe to amy own version of Mencken's Maxim.....the one that goes "One horselaugh is worth 100,000 syllogisms". Mine skips the 99,999 and gets down to business.

Vivienne

veespin
02-09-2007, 03:16 PM
Yikes! Thanks for the awareness. Why is it these injuries don't happen when the crazy instructor (who they probably learned from) is teaching? I hope she recovers well, that would not be a fun injury :eek:

Well, my pal saw the member's friend at the gym the next day and asked about them leaving class and the friend told her then about the injury......which was so bad, apparently, they both went shopping in the afternoon!!

The injured party was also in a muscle conditioning class the next day.

Thing is.....you don't need crazy instructors to have class members who're accidents waiting to happen. All this woman's classes had been with this one instructor (who's been something of a mentor to me) and I witness plenty of folk who've only ever taken my class and, in spite of every warning and visualisation I can come up with that stops this side of me looking like I'm totally injury phobic, still appear to disregard instructions. It's enough to make someone paranoid think they're doing it on purpose.

Vivienne

sweetie-pie
02-09-2007, 04:26 PM
:eek:OUCH!

Veespin - I hate to say it like this but I think you just have to cover your own back, teach proper form and point out the dangers of psychospinning or other barmy manoeuvers - hopefully that means 99% of your participants will have a strong, save and exciting spin. Those 1% who choose to do it in their own sweet way can only have themselves to blame if you've gone the extra mile in encouraging safety. And if anyone ever does have an accident in your class, at least the other participants will be able to back you up and say you've done all you can do.

But what an injury - it hurts me just to think of it. Hope this lady makes a good recovery!

SP

ACinNJ
02-09-2007, 04:30 PM
Sometimes the only effective way to prevent injury is to kill someone on the bike. That will give you the reputation as an instructor who means business.;)

sweetie-pie
02-09-2007, 04:31 PM
AC, I'm so glad I don't go to your classes :cool:

veespin
02-09-2007, 04:41 PM
But what an injury - it hurts me just to think of it. Hope this lady makes a good recovery!


Well, since she went shopping on the day of the "accident" and did a muscle conditioning class the next day....

Vivienne

Raindrop
02-10-2007, 12:43 AM
Do you only get "tick marks" if you kill someone?:confused: If the rules aren't that stringent, then I guess I get one mark for calling 911, right?

It happened after my class, after my cool down....during the off the bike stretch. The guy was watching his HR monitor, and I was walking thru the class, and asked him if there was a probelm. He said his HR was still really high. I checked it and yeah, it was elevated to about 190. I asked someone to go to the desk to call 911, and I told everyone else to finish...clear the room, and give me a couple of yoga blocks to put under his feet to elevate them.

Just about the time the EMTs arrived, his heart rate dropped to 70. Still, the EMTs did an EKG (it was normal) and then suggested he ride with them to the hospital to be checked out. He refused.

However, when I offered (stupidly, it comes out after visiting the tenets of my insurance), to drive him to the E.R. to verify the paremedics findings...he agreed. So, I drove him to E.R., met his wife and family. He was checked out and cleared for any subsequent exercise.

Meanwhile, I had to write up an "incident report" and replay over and over in my mind my CPR/AED/1st Aide classes.

It's scary...it's unpredicatable....and it's a learning experience that you don't want to have. Still, it's nice to know that after taking the classes for the last decade....the training actually kicks in.

Todd S
02-10-2007, 02:10 AM
He was probably experiencing atrial fibrillation. It's a little spooky seeing your HR that high, but it usually won't kill you. :) I used to see that nearly all the time during the year after my heart surgery. It's a strange feeling when your heart jumps into the arrhythmia and back into a normal rhythm.

It's probably not a big deal if it doesn't happen too often, but it could be serious if it becomes a chronic condition. It took a catheter ablation to permanently cure me. If that hadn't worked, I was probably looking at a lifetime of blood thinners and limited cardiac output.

It was good that you had him checked out. Atrial arrhythmias - not so serious, ventricular arrhythmias - very serious.

britspin
02-10-2007, 04:38 AM
I know, I know, I know.....but in the case of psychospinners is it safer to cue, cue cue, get ignored, cue again etc, or (heaven forbid) turn up their resistance albeit for a few seconds to at least say...'this is where I want you, this is how it is done'? The lesser of two evils?
I am not talking about jacking it up to a full stop, but actually getting the pad to make meaningful contact with the flywheel, if not in the class, get them on a bike after class that you have set up with a reasonable amount of resistance on...reasonable in anyones terms again not cranked up.

veespin
02-10-2007, 04:55 AM
He was probably experiencing atrial fibrillation. It's a little spooky seeing your HR that high, but it usually won't kill you. :) I used to see that nearly all the time during the year after my heart surgery. It's a strange feeling when your heart jumps into the arrhythmia and back into a normal rhythm.

It's probably not a big deal if it doesn't happen too often, but it could be serious if it becomes a chronic condition. It took a catheter ablation to permanently cure me. If that hadn't worked, I was probably looking at a lifetime of blood thinners and limited cardiac output.

It was good that you had him checked out. Atrial arrhythmias - not so serious, ventricular arrhythmias - very serious.

Todd I think that, since the arrythmias you're talking about are often due to disturbances in the electrical impulses that generate normal rhythm, you'd get an erratic reading on an HR monitor rather than a high HR....the receiver wouldn't be able to unscramble the signal...much like cross talk.

Most likely explanation is that the member didn't cool down adequately.......muscles still demanding oxygen, loss of "muscle pump" action as member hops off bike (or stops dead in the middle of class) and subsequent decrease in venous returen and a sudden spike in HR as compensation. Best treatment is to get back on the bike and pedal for a while longer.

Something similar happened to me in a 5K last summer.......first non-chip timed race in ages. Did my last finishing kick only to have to stop dead in the finish chute while the volunteers ripped the tags off our race numbers. I got very light headed and, sure enough, my HR was way up there......had to start running again to bring it down and then do a proper warm down. Just goes to show, you can always find a bit more energy if you have to dig real deep.

Vivienne

veespin
02-10-2007, 05:04 AM
I know, I know, I know.....but in the case of psychospinners is it safer to cue, cue cue, get ignored, cue again etc, or (heaven forbid) turn up their resistance albeit for a few seconds to at least say...'this is where I want you, this is how it is done'? The lesser of two evils?
I am not talking about jacking it up to a full stop, but actually getting the pad to make meaningful contact with the flywheel, if not in the class, get them on a bike after class that you have set up with a reasonable amount of resistance on...reasonable in anyones terms again not cranked up.


Interestingly, this came up in the discussion with the GM.....who knew nothing about Spinning BTW. She didn't seem too convinced that it's generally considered "contraindicated" to put a hand on someone's knob and that it's the member's responsibility to manage intensity/resistance.

Quite honestly, I've had a couple of occasions when a newbie has popped out of the saddle with inadequate resistance and is just too startled to either sit back down or add resisitance and is pedalling away like there's no tomorrow. I've added resistance as an emergency measure just to let them gain control and sit back down.

Like you say, sometimes there's greater injury potential in endless cues rather than direct action.

Vivienne

jsejt
02-10-2007, 07:35 AM
Reminds me of the many bike injuries I had as a kid, trying to jump off the bike with it's still moving. Another story.......

I agree with the majority, cue good form and when you see someone "out of control" spinning, I say, "Add gear if your hopping up and down." I'll do a cadence check and I'll explain what the cadence should look like. If the person still insists on doing it their own way, then they'll have the above injury. My style is not to approach the rider and touch them or the bike.

Raindrop
02-10-2007, 01:55 PM
I can assure you Veespin, that the member cooled down appropriately since my profiles always end with a cool down and with only 15 bikes at that facility, it was easy enough for me to keep an eye on all the participants and make sure they were doing just that.

I wish I had what type of diagnosis was given to him, but it's in my files at home. Whatever it was, he was told that when/if it happens again he was to cough or bear down and that would bring his heart rate back to normal. Does that ring a bell with any of you as far as the type of syndrome it was??

JoyofSpin
02-10-2007, 02:31 PM
Vee - I'm a bit concerned as well. Is it our club in common? You've seen them - I've seen them - our words falling on 'deaf' ears as they continue to think that spinning out of control is somehow going to make them more fit or lose weight. It's unfortunate that it happened. Unfortunate in the response. And more unfortunate that this person will probably go back and continue to do it again.

Of course I'm hoping it wasn't in my class.

Jennifer
02-10-2007, 02:36 PM
Do you only get "tick marks" if you kill someone?:confused: If the rules aren't that stringent, then I guess I get one mark for calling 911, right?

It happened after my class, after my cool down....during the off the bike stretch. The guy was watching his HR monitor, and I was walking thru the class, and asked him if there was a probelm. He said his HR was still really high. I checked it and yeah, it was elevated to about 190. I asked someone to go to the desk to call 911, and I told everyone else to finish...clear the room, and give me a couple of yoga blocks to put under his feet to elevate them.



Exact same thing happened to me at the VERY FIRST CLASS I EVER TAUGHT. Good times...When they went looking for the incident report forms, they couldn't find them because they had been put away from lack of use. I told them to keep a stack handy just for me :D

veespin
02-10-2007, 05:20 PM
wish I had what type of diagnosis was given to him, but it's in my files at home. Whatever it was, he was told that when/if it happens again he was to cough or bear down and that would bring his heart rate back to normal. Does that ring a bell with any of you as far as the type of syndrome it was??

In your original post on this guy's condition, you didn't mention anything resembling a diagnosis but the treatment you're describing the "val salva" maneuver is used for increasing vagal tone to the heart in someone suffering paroxysmal tachycardia. This would be an unusual diagnosis in someone experiencing an event like this as a one off episode (assuming it was, of course) and the "paroxysmal" in the moniker describes the tendancy for it to happen without obvious stimulus, rather than a post exercise event. As Todd mentioned, should it become chronic, catheter ablation is another option.

Personally, I think I'd sooner have a diagnosis of inadequate cool down in one of my class participants. If you hear hoof beats think horses, not zebras.....not least because horses are much easier to handle.

Vivienne

veespin
02-10-2007, 05:40 PM
Vee - I'm a bit concerned as well. Is it our club in common?

Yes it is.....and "our" home gym.

I have a shrewd idea that you might get to hear about it since, judging by the way the GM told the story of her conversations with, and imagining how her responses must've sounded to the member.....already building a "story" and getting her own sources to comment on how the instructor should teach.....I smell an attempt at a law suit in the works.

Unlikely to fly beyond a "shake down" settlement but effing annoying and stressful just the same.

Vivienne

kspin
03-01-2007, 12:59 PM
Fortunately, I don't have people doing crazy stuff very often (though lately, I have seen two fun ones: riding no handed and taking one foot out of the cage to "work the leg"). My approach is to say something to the class first "use both hands and all feet, at all times:)" If that doesn't work, I go directly to the individual, tell them pointedly to discontinue because it's unsafe. I then turn to the person next to them and say, "you heard me tell him that right?" Works for me.

sandy
03-01-2007, 05:15 PM
O.K. so this reminds me of a past post that was talking about having bikes to use not for a class, but just for a members own discretion on the floor in the gym. I've had this discussion with my own GM. I feel like its an accident waiting to happen. If a person with no knowledge of the mechanics of a spinning bike gets on and wails away there could be serious injuries. So we talk about what can happen in class to people ignoring safety precautions but if you have spin bikes outside of the class room you might as well not lose any sleep over it