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joycenahorski
02-06-2007, 12:50 PM
I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with Les Mills RPM classes? The gym I sub in will be starting that this summer. Some opinions, information please. Thanks.

Joyce

:p

markdmiller
02-06-2007, 02:07 PM
http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=4102

Go here.

thosknox
02-06-2007, 04:07 PM
If you followed the link for the thread, I think the best response was provided by lrlloyd.

RPM and group cycle can co-exist, however, RPM and Spinning cannot. MDA does not permit a gym/facility to maintain a licensing agreement other than their own when it comes to indoor cycling. I experienced this in TX when the gym at which I taught added RPM to its list of group exercise programs. As a result of this new LMI addition, the gym gave up their MDA licensing agreement. However, instead of teaching only RPM classes, managment opted to continue teaching both RPM and group cycle (spinning by another name). MDA certified instructors continue/d to teach group cycle but could not teach RPM without going through the LMI training.

IMO, RPM is an interval ride every time with the terrain the same each and every time. Song two will always be pace work, and song seven will always be a mountain climb, AND track order cannot be changed. A good RPM instructor can and will mix the releases for musical variety. A bad RPM instructor (as was mentioned in the link) will watch the educational dvd which accompanies the quarterly releases, memorize the cueing on the dvd, and mimic it in their classes and never vary their music until the next release arrives in the mail.

I am both RPM and MDA certified. I continue to teach group cycle and RPM, but actually enjoy the rides I put together myself much better because I choose the music and I can vary the terrain.

I hope I provided a bit more information. I can answer more specific questions related to RPM if you have them. My suggestion to you is to take the training.

thosknox

ACinNJ
02-06-2007, 04:19 PM
I had a chance to finnaly observe a Group Ride class which is the other half of the Les Mills partnership that disolved a few years ago. I promised the director I would keep an open mind and was going to get the certification to sub on occasion, not to take a regular slot myself.

It was, for no other words, awful. It's really awful for the members, because they ride in some contra indicated positions to "Spinning" and cadences are faster. So you have a group of instructors telling them to do 1 thing and another telling them something else.

The music is predictable...you can hear it on any CD from the fitness libraries. Remixes of any Top 40 song of the last 3 months. And over and over...week after week.

It's just not for me.

kkoplien
02-06-2007, 06:19 PM
[quote=thosknox;48366] MDA does not permit a gym/facility to maintain a licensing agreement other than their own when it comes to indoor cycling.]

I wish MDA would take the same hard stand when it comes to who they allow to teach - instead of just "certifying" anyone with a Visa card.

[quote=ACinNJ;48375]I had a chance to finnaly observe a Group Ride class which is the other half of the Les Mills partnership that disolved a few years ago.]

BTS Group Ride and Les Mills RPM are not the same - though theoretically they are. BTS uses "remixed top 40" music usually by cover bands. Les Mills uses some remixes but a lot of original tracks. The remixes sound more like dance club remixes (I believe most are) than watered down exercise remixes. I find the music inspiring. I've even purchased some of the songs from Itunes and used them in my Spinning classes.

Our club went with BTS after the split but quickly switched back to Les Mills. So I've seen both.

I am MDA and very soon to be LM RPM certified. I like both programs for different reasons.

For what thats worth.

KK

thosknox
02-07-2007, 03:44 PM
Obviously, AC had a bad experience with Group Ride (which as KK said is NOT RPM). I, too, disagreed with some of the things that I saw in my first RPM class based upon my Spinning experience and education. However, I don't think that there is anything in RPM that is unsafe. It's just different. I also think that the RPM program has grown and developed since its onset due to the addition of a "real" rider to their program director team.

I haven't experienced the BTS Group Ride, so I can't comment on that one. And, I maintained my affiliation with LMI when the split occurred as did the gyms where I teach currently and have taught for in the past.

Regarding music: LMI uses music by the original artist and mixes of original music for their programs. The one drawback, at times, is the use of the same songs (not necessarily the same mixes of songs) in more than one LMI program. I've taught a hill track in RPM that was also the squat track in BodyPump though the releases were from different quarters. Per the LMI instructor agreement, the songs used in RPM wouldn't/shouldn't be used in other LMI classes or group exercise classes unless they fall into the category mentioned above. Of course, there will always be those who fail to uphold their agreement....but that's another thread entirely :rolleyes: !

thosknox

ACinNJ
02-07-2007, 08:43 PM
Pointing out again, there are speeds and body positions that are contra indicated in a traditional Spinning class, as well as Schwinn ans Keiser.

I maintain that if a club does classes in both, what do the members think when 1 instructor says to 1 thing and another is the opposite?

As far as the music...pretty much who cares? If they hand it to me and demand I use it, I move on to some other club or drop oput completely. I change once a week most times and sometimes twice. I've never used the same music in a class twice in a row in a week and mostly it's 4 weeks before I repeat something. I'd go bats myself playing the same thing over and over and doing the same profile over and over.

But different horses for different courses....

kkoplien
02-08-2007, 12:25 PM
[quote=ACinNJ;48533]Pointing out again, there are speeds and body positions that are contra indicated in a traditional Spinning class, as well as Schwinn ans Keiser.]

For the benefit of the original poster's question... AC is describing BTS Group Ride NOT Les Mills RPM. Other than one minor hand position difference that get's used for brief periods, I don't think members would know the difference between RPM and a Spinning IEZ ride. There are no crazy moves and no unsafe cadences.

If a club's management can offer two programs with all instructors educated enough to talk positively to the differences between the two - great! More options for everybody.

I don't get all the negativity.

KK

EuroD
02-08-2007, 02:10 PM
BUT, I have to jump in here.

AC, what moves does the BTS Group Ride perform that by our Spinning training contra-indicated? Just a couple of examples would be great.

I too have heard from instructors who took RPM training that the cadences were extremely high and the resistance coached too low, hence they chose not to take certification, as they felt it compromised their philosophy.

AC I totally agree with you that if you coach in the Spinning fashion and the other program has contra-indicated movements, then yes, participants will notice and they will comment to one of the instructors. I know an instructor who STILL drills backwards peddling, and those riders questioned me why I didn't do it. After explaining why it is ineffective and the harm it can cause a bike - they heard but still did it in that instructor's class (because they dared not to). :eek:

I also support the other comments where the ride is always the same, just the music changes. That would drive me bats too, as I really couldn't do the same profile time after time.

Pink
02-08-2007, 02:26 PM
I have never been exposed to either of these programs so I can't comment either way. But I do have a question. What is the benefit to teaching the same profile, using the same music for 3 months? Like most have mentioned, I'd feel like a spike was being driven through my skull if I had to listen to the same CD for 3 months. However, there must be a reason that the program was set up this way. What is their rationale? Just curious, not negative.

danab
02-08-2007, 02:32 PM
I have done 2 RPM classes, I don't teach it but teach other Les Mills programs. The first one was AMAZING! I thought it was the music and the profile. No, it was the instructor. Went to another, it was flat as could be.

As with any Les Mills, you don't play the same music for 3 months. When we get a new release at our gym (which comes out every 3 months), we have to use it for at least 2 weeks, but after 6 weeks we have to change it up and mix old ones in.

db

ACinNJ
02-08-2007, 06:03 PM
BUT, I have to jump in here.

AC, what moves does the BTS Group Ride perform that by our Spinning training contra-indicated? Just a couple of examples would be great.

I too have heard from instructors who took RPM training that the cadences were extremely high and the resistance coached too low, hence they chose not to take certification, as they felt it compromised their philosophy.

AC I totally agree with you that if you coach in the Spinning fashion and the other program has contra-indicated movements, then yes, participants will notice and they will comment to one of the instructors. I know an instructor who STILL drills backwards peddling, and those riders questioned me why I didn't do it. After explaining why it is ineffective and the harm it can cause a bike - they heard but still did it in that instructor's class (because they dared not to). :eek:

I also support the other comments where the ride is always the same, just the music changes. That would drive me bats too, as I really couldn't do the same profile time after time.

Seated in HP3.
Cadences above 120 RPM with little to no resistance.
Now...if it was a minute of this here or there...OK..I'm not the Spin Gestapo. But this was in the profile for about a third of the ride. I was with another experienced Spin instructor and we wanted to walk over and straighten the guy out half the time. Meaning his posture. I know there are indoor bikes getting built with aero bars. Until they do, the basic positions will work OK for now.

I truly understand the benefit of this program for the director of the club and a Mommy teaching all kinds of classes to make ends meet. The director does not worry that 1 instructor is that much better or worse than another. A person pressed for time with kids and other things in life has the music and profile done for them. That's really the market for either RPM or Group Ride.

It's a valid program in the business and their sales and marketing division does a great job. The club owner can buy any brand bike. Instructors are all equal on a level playing field. Great premise. Great business model.

kkoplien
02-08-2007, 08:38 PM
Seated in HP3 - I guess that's open to interpretation. The Group Ride instructor may have went there. RPM calls the position "racing" - which for me on a Star Trac Spinner is just around the bend from HP2 - not stretched out to the bar ends. Technically contraindicated (love that word) but until MDA has Star Trac build bikes with fore/aft adjustable handlebars again (like the old V bikes), it's hard for me to be too picky about that subtle difference. People ride that way in my Spin classes and I have a hard time telling that not to do it if it's more comfortable for them.

RPM also has a position called "aero racing" = HP1, just hold onto the Spinner "D" section in the center instead of resting fists on top.


Cadences above 120 RPM with little to no resistance. - Does not exist in LM RPM - at least if it's being taught correctly.

The director does not worry that 1 instructor is that much better or worse than another. - Actually that's not true as Danab pointed out.

A person pressed for time with kids and other things in life has the music and profile done for them. - If that's the reason someone decides to teach RPM then they probably won't be a very good RPM instructor. Probably end up like the second instructor in Danab's post.

It's a valid program in the business and their sales and marketing division does a great job. The club owner can buy any brand bike. Instructors are all equal on a level playing field. Great premise. Great business model. - Agree.

I like both programs. Spinning because I like making my own profiles and experimenting with different music. RPM because I love the energy of a good RPM class.

Back to the original post... Joyce - if the gym is offering to pay for the training, definitely take it. If you have to pay and you are only subbing at the gym - think about it. Learning the releases is a lot of work if you are not going to have a regular class. Either way - if you do take it, it will make you a better instructor in any program you teach.

KK

ACinNJ
02-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Seated in HP3 - I guess that's open to interpretation. The Group Ride instructor may have went there. RPM calls the position "racing" - which for me on a Star Trac Spinner is just around the bend from HP2 - not stretched out to the bar ends. Technically contraindicated (love that word) but until MDA has Star Trac build bikes with fore/aft adjustable handlebars again (like the old V bikes), it's hard for me to be too picky about that subtle difference. People ride that way in my Spin classes and I have a hard time telling that not to do it if it's more comfortable for them.

RPM also has a position called "aero racing" = HP1, just hold onto the Spinner "D" section in the center instead of resting fists on top.


Cadences above 120 RPM with little to no resistance. - Does not exist in LM RPM - at least if it's being taught correctly.

The director does not worry that 1 instructor is that much better or worse than another. - Actually that's not true as Danab pointed out.

A person pressed for time with kids and other things in life has the music and profile done for them. - If that's the reason someone decides to teach RPM then they probably won't be a very good RPM instructor. Probably end up like the second instructor in Danab's post.

It's a valid program in the business and their sales and marketing division does a great job. The club owner can buy any brand bike. Instructors are all equal on a level playing field. Great premise. Great business model. - Agree.

I like both programs. Spinning because I like making my own profiles and experimenting with different music. RPM because I love the energy of a good RPM class.

Back to the original post... Joyce - if the gym is offering to pay for the training, definitely take it. If you have to pay and you are only subbing at the gym - think about it. Learning the releases is a lot of work if you are not going to have a regular class. Either way - if you do take it, it will make you a better instructor in any program you teach.

KK

It's basically pointless to ride seated on a stationary bike in anything other than HP2. You would ride aerodynamically outdoors to minimize drag. That does not exist indoors, so you should assume the most balanced and athletic position, putting least amount of strain on the lower back. A Spinner, or any indoor bike is not realy a bicycle anyway, it's a training device. Riding in HP3 seated looks completely awkward, especially when you start adding resistance and try to power into it. HP1 you're not holding the center section. You're not holding anything actually.

We all think we "interpret" what Spinning is. I actually don't. I teach it the way I was taught to teach it.

If you need the gig, get the cert. When they hand me the profile and music and tell me to wear a uniform, I'm looking at that club in the rear view mirror.

DEG
02-08-2007, 09:22 PM
I am open minded. I love Jay, Mindy, Rob and all the "Schwinn" instructors. I love Madd Dog. I hate RPM. Way too fast, music is ANNOYING and I really don't think any of their instructors really has ever ridden outside. I got into a discussion about HRM with one of their national trainers and he said "we don't use them because it would deter people from coming to class." How sad. Here they have a network to really train (and in their other programs they really do) and they neglected to take advantage of it.

With that said some of my friends enjoy teaching the program. I wouldn't.

There is no education to the students - NONE. They just want to get people on a bike and moving.

but as with anything in life ..... we have choices.

kkoplien
02-08-2007, 11:53 PM
It's basically pointless to ride seated on a stationary bike in anything other than HP2. You would ride aerodynamically outdoors to minimize drag. That does not exist indoors, so you should assume the most balanced and athletic position, putting least amount of strain on the lower back. A Spinner, or any indoor bike is not realy a bicycle anyway, it's a training device. Riding in HP3 seated looks completely awkward, especially when you start adding resistance and try to power into it. HP1 you're not holding the center section. You're not holding anything actually.

We all think we "interpret" what Spinning is. I actually don't. I teach it the way I was taught to teach it.

If you need the gig, get the cert. When they hand me the profile and music and tell me to wear a uniform, I'm looking at that club in the rear view mirror.

I too teach Spinning the way I was taught to teach it.

By "open to interpretation" I was referring to the Group Ride or RPM instructor going to the "racing" position while on a Spinner. RPM is actually designed around the Bodybike - a European bike that has much shorter handlebars (I think similar to Keiser bikes). The instructor's interpretation of "racing" on a Spinner could translate (in their mind) to HP3.

I agree that seated HP3 looks awkward and uncomfortable and would never teach it.

As far as the need for aerodynamics indoors go - obviously there is none. However most of us who ride outside use imagery from the road (i.e. pushing a big gear on a seated flat slightly forward in the saddle, relaxed arms, knees tracking inside elbows, upper body lowered, hands in position 2, imagining a stiff headwind). From there not a big stretch to go the the RPM racing position though I would never do it while teaching a Spinning class.

Anyway, when I teach Spinning it's by the book. When I start teaching RPM (I'm going through training this weekend), I'll do it and not sweat the small technique differences.

And one more thing... I am happy to sport the uniform of whatever program that I am teaching.:D

KK

Robert
02-09-2007, 08:27 AM
And one more thing... I am happy to sport the uniform of whatever program that I am teaching.:D

KK

Some people even have a tattoo of the company's logo... eh, Rick? ;)

Mad people... or should that be Madd? :D

PS - a bad instructor is a bad instructor. It doesn't matter whether Spinning, Schwinn, Keiser, Lemon, RPM, etc. I'm objective enough that I can find faults with all of the programs (yes, even JGSI) but they all have one thing in common - cycling.

Good bike, good instructor, good music = great ride.

PPS - obviously I'm not talking about CI stuff like backwards pedalling, which most, if not all, of the programs rate as a CI.

Robert
02-09-2007, 08:28 AM
I don't get all the negativity.

It gets like that in here, sometimes - must be the cold weather....

britspin
02-09-2007, 03:16 PM
Can I just defend an 'aero' position? On the basis that the spin bike is a training device, then if someone wanted to prepare for an aero position, then training for this on a spin bike where adjustment is easy, and can be graduated, monitored & measured on a weekly basis...then why not?
Not neccessarily in a class situation, certainly not often, but I do go flat _ fast, some do drop into an 'aero' position briefly...if they fit it, I leave them.

dmoynehan
01-17-2008, 10:11 AM
RPM's profile is based on constant feedback from instructors and participants as well as on the latest fitness research. If you actually do the workout the way it's designed (and should be coached), you will see results. Period. It's been demonstrated by many thousands of instructors and participants around the world.

Every 3 months a new release arrives with not only the music and a DVD of the program directors teaching a class, but with up-to-date educational material as well. As time goes on, the program has evolved to take into account new information in fitness as well as phasing out things that showed minimal or no measurable gains in fitness.

Safety is the #1 item in all of Les Mills' classes, and in RPM it begins with setting up the bike properly so the back, knees, etc. are in proper alignment to minimize potential injury.

There's a strong emphasis in Les Mills on each participant being able to make the workout their own. In RPM, the resistance and pace are coached based on Perceived Exertion rather than in absolutes. If you're not getting the workout you want, just turn up the dial and work a little harder.

As for listening to the same music for 3 months, I think that idea has been put to bed already, but I'll reiterate. All Les Mills instructors are strongly encouraged to mix up the music so neither they nor their participants get bored.

EuroD
01-17-2008, 01:45 PM
Gosh I swore I'd NEVER respond to another RPM or Group Cycle thread. So, I'm weak!

The club I used to teach at has RPM, and the instructors that teach it, chose to for the reason that they don't have to create a profile and add music. They also teach some of the other Les Mills formats. None of the RPM instructors have ever taken a cycle class, nor have ridden outside. I cannot comment on their ability as I left.

What I can comment on is the number of that club's members showing up at my current club, and in my classes. They told me, without ANY solicitation of information that they left X gym because of RPM and how it was not meeting their needs. These members, when I was at X gym always worked hard, and met their goals. RPM was just not doing that for them.

That said, I too agree that RPM and cycle can co-exisit. Some members like repetition as they feel comfortable with knowing what's next, and others like to be challenged (they don't know what's coming next, per se). Whatever you offer people will attend, the difference is who stays.

Jpgirl
01-21-2008, 04:51 PM
I'm with ya EuroD!! Welcome dmoynehan!! I have been in the fitness industry for over 15 years,certified as Group Ex,Personal Trainer,Exercise Specialist,Schwinn cycling and now RPM. We launch this weekend.I think RPM is a good program for all the reasons you stated. Having said that-if the instructor is doing their homework-knowing the science behind IDC,knowing how to properly profile a ride,know how to choreograph to music, their coaching should not be that different from RPM. I know that for myself, the students in my classes that are switching to RPM will not see a huge difference between RPM and my free style, except for length-I run my freestyle about 55 minutes. I get a little weary of some LMI people running around acting like LMI invented sliced bread. Thankfully my trainer did not. What they did do is put some good choreography to good music-especially helping the next generation of instructors to learn how to do it right. I took the training because our gym is putting RPM in half the classes and I didn't want to lose any of my time slots. We have an extremely strong group of instuctors so like I said before most of the students won't even notice. Yes RPM gets results but so will any instructor who knows what they're doing. Believe me LMI is not immune to producing their share of bad instructors-I've seen them. I'm with EuroD -RPM and other cycling programs can coexist peacefully.

monical1
01-24-2008, 05:25 PM
I teach in an RPM facility where we are also able to teach "freestyle cycle". I appreciate that I get to do my thing, (I'm certified through MDA) and so I need to appreciate that others teach RPM, after all, it is an RPM facility. I was completely against RPM before I started working there; a complete Johnny G snob, I admit it, it's true. However, I've been pretty impressed by some of the instructors that teach BodyPump, BodyFlow, etc... They seem really well trained and they do mix up the music. I don't really like the music, but I'm able to block it out (in BodyPump). There are people who seem to prefer RPM over freecycle, but overall they don't get as many people in their classes as we get in the freestyle. I know that because we have to log the number of people we have in each class in a group x book. Anyway, live and let live, eh?

SOAR ON WINGS LIKE EAGLES
01-29-2008, 01:49 PM
How long is the RPM certification? Is it a three-day "thing" like Body Pump? Do they cover all the motivational education, etc., as in Body Pump? Is the Cert HARD? Do they ride you to death? I've got a knee problem, and if I ride every day, it really starts "paining" me. :) Thanks for any info. My club is looking into this RPM program for the spring.

ChocolatePizzaRedWine
01-29-2008, 02:41 PM
I haven't taken the cert, but I believe it's two days and you spend a big chunk of time on the bike and a big chunk in the classroom.

You might want to check with the folks on www.groupfitness.org (http://www.groupfitness.org) an officially unofficial Les Mills site. Here's the link to the RPM section of the forum:

http://www.groupfitness.org/forum/index.php?showforum=7

Good luck!

kkoplien
01-30-2008, 06:26 PM
How long is the RPM certification? Is it a three-day "thing" like Body Pump? Do they cover all the motivational education, etc., as in Body Pump? Is the Cert HARD? Do they ride you to death? I've got a knee problem, and if I ride every day, it really starts "paining" me. :) Thanks for any info. My club is looking into this RPM program for the spring.

HI. I'm MDA certified (2 1/2 Years), RPM (1 Year), BodyPump (6 Months).

RPM is 2 days. It's kind of a blur now but here's how it goes...

Day 1 - Ride the entire current release with the trainer, start into the manual covering technique and motivational education.

After lunch get assigned your track to present to the group the next day. Work on more technique. Pair up and practice your track. Work on more technique. Cover more manual info off the bike. Get back on bikes and cover more technique.

Pizza never tasted so good that night.

Day 2 -

Opens with one of many Les Mills games... Those of you who have been through any LM training know what I'm talking about.

Next everyone presents their tracks while being filmed - by the time this is done you've ridden the entire release again. Get off bikes and review the videos getting critiqued by the trainer and the group.
Cover more of the manual off the bike. Work on more technique on the bike.

After lunch present your tracks again while being filmed again (again the equivalent of riding the entire release) - repeat video review. Cover more manual. Get on bikes and train together on more technique.

Finish the day with the "Race of Truth" 1 hour intense ride incorporating all techique.

Closing portion of manual. Receive your grade. Certification is not complete until you submit your Video and receive a Pass (like all LM programs).

All together we probably spent 8 hours of actual riding.

Yes the training includes all the same motivational education as BodyPump. Remove the program specific information and the manuals are identical.

Hope that helps. :)

KK

PS - This is how it is done hear in the U.S. I understand that in other parts of the world it may be different. I think in Australia they stretch it over two weekends.

Jpgirl
02-03-2008, 11:05 AM
I did the Certification this past Nov.-just to preface-I had abdominal surgery in March-I ride outdoors and do a lot of endurance charity rides. That particular weekend I was not at my best physically-but even so if you do a lot of riding (100 plus a week) then this is just like a long weekend ride. We did the Race of Truth at the end of day one-I was doing just fine until then. That ride put me over the top and I was in bed with ice packs for my incision by 7 that night. I've had harder rides outdoors but not for 2 days. We had an Eco Challenge lady in our group and even she was a bit ragged around the edges by the end of Day 2. From what I've heard it is very similar to Body Pump and Body Combat trainings-if you're fit it will challenge you but not break you. The key is to know how to pace yourself despite the trainer wanting to kill you. If you ride endurance outdoors or run marathons you'll know what I mean. Our group was lucky in that we had very fit knowledgeable riders who picked up very quickly what the trainer wanted us to know-cadence drills ect-so we didn't spend half the day doing drills over and over.

Ripper
03-25-2008, 10:18 PM
I have never been exposed to either of these programs so I can't comment either way. But I do have a question. What is the benefit to teaching the same profile, using the same music for 3 months? Like most have mentioned, I'd feel like a spike was being driven through my skull if I had to listen to the same CD for 3 months. However, there must be a reason that the program was set up this way. What is their rationale? Just curious, not negative.

I have been teaching RPM for close to a year now and I can tell you that I have never taught the same CD for 3 months. While the ride format might be the same (which is beneficial in cardio interval training), I definitely mix my Les Mills library for each class. I have taken both spinning and RPM. I am convinced that the popularity of the classes come not so much from the music or platform of the class, but from the instructor leading the ride. While we have high numbers in our freestyle classes, we also have very high numbers in our RPM classes as well. If you would like more info on RPM, check out the official website.
Good luck!!!

joycenahorski
03-26-2008, 12:11 PM
I am fighting a bit of sciatica and planning on taking the RPM training this weekend. Am I going to die? I think I am in pretty good shape. I take two spinning classes a week and teach two more. I also do 2 strength training days and yoga? Tell me your honest opinion. I don't want to push myself if it will put me in bed for two days.

Joyce

:o

Ripper
03-26-2008, 10:10 PM
I am fighting a bit of sciatica and planning on taking the RPM training this weekend. Am I going to die? I think I am in pretty good shape. I take two spinning classes a week and teach two more. I also do 2 strength training days and yoga? Tell me your honest opinion. I don't want to push myself if it will put me in bed for two days.

Joyce

:o

Well, Joyce, the good news is that you should survive the training. Definitely don't make any plans to go out or do anything after the first day of training as you will just not physically have the energy to do so. I am an avid cyclist and after spending at least 6 hours on the bike that first day, I must say that I was a bit wiped out. You sound like you are in great shape. Just remember to stretch, stretch, stretch!!!! Nobody in my training class required bed rest after the training, and we were all in pretty good shape.

Just remember to bring plenty of fluids with you, as well as energy foods. Be sure to eat throughout the day to keep that energy going. It helped me to wear a cycle jersey to the training so I had all of my extra pockets to store energy bars, etc. If you are not into all the heavy sports drinks and tired of plain water, try NUUN if you haven't done so already. It's an electrolyte tablet that you just drop in your water bottle (different flavors available). I started using this last year, especially on my 100+ mile bike rides and it has kept me going for miles and miles!!!

Good luck with your training!

:)

alexkaboom
03-27-2008, 03:11 PM
I have probably posted this in here, sometime in the past, as RPM threads come up now and then...

The idea behind the "cookie-cutter" class served a purpose; to provide consistency and quality in the delivery of the class, which in principle is a noble idea. Budy Pump has certainly been a revolutionary concept of bringing strength training to the group x crowd with motivational music and an easy to follow pattern.

Because of the success of BP, Les Mills started applying the same model to all of their programs, until they got to cycling... does it work from a Marketing standpoint? Perhaps... is it cycling with a purpose? No. It is just like they used to promote it "A Rock Concert On Wheels"...

I've taken RPM classes, I'm certified in BP and used to work for a "cookie cutter" facility that only offered LMI programs... and I just don't buy it. Here are the reasons why:

1. Strict Sequence of Songs/Movements. (How can this provide flexibility to your students?). Have you ever scan the room upon entering before teaching a class and realized that the population (which you already know) is not "Up for it"? You need the ability to tailor intensity, movement and purpose at all times.

2. Plain Boredom. The biggest reason for LMI and BTS to separate in the United States was over music, and how inflexible they are with it. As an instructor I want to be in charge on my tunes, as they are a great vehicle for the mood and purpose of the class.

3. Performance Indicators: There is no mention of heart rate parameters or even the purpose of the moves you do in class. Why do you train on a bike in the first place?

4. Contra-indications: Unsafe speeds for indoors, fast jumps in-and-out of the saddle without rhime or reason (popcorn jumps), extremely inneficient upper body movement... I could go on and on...

If you must take a certification and your gym will pay for it, then do it until you can get get a better one. My advise would be to remain objective during your training and always remember the purpose of indoor cycling...

Off my soapbox now... :o

Alex

PaulD
03-28-2008, 06:38 AM
I have probably posted this in here, sometime in the past, as RPM threads come up now and then...

The idea behind the "cookie-cutter" class served a purpose; to provide consistency and quality in the delivery of the class, which in principle is a noble idea. Budy Pump has certainly been a revolutionary concept of bringing strength training to the group x crowd with motivational music and an easy to follow pattern.

Because of the success of BP, Les Mills started applying the same model to all of their programs, until they got to cycling... does it work from a Marketing standpoint? Perhaps... is it cycling with a purpose? No. It is just like they used to promote it "A Rock Concert On Wheels"...

I've taken RPM classes, I'm certified in BP and used to work for a "cookie cutter" facility that only offered LMI programs... and I just don't buy it. Here are the reasons why:

1. Strict Sequence of Songs/Movements. (How can this provide flexibility to your students?). Have you ever scan the room upon entering before teaching a class and realized that the population (which you already know) is not "Up for it"? You need the ability to tailor intensity, movement and purpose at all times.

2. Plain Boredom. The biggest reason for LMI and BTS to separate in the United States was over music, and how inflexible they are with it. As an instructor I want to be in charge on my tunes, as they are a great vehicle for the mood and purpose of the class.

3. Performance Indicators: There is no mention of heart rate parameters or even the purpose of the moves you do in class. Why do you train on a bike in the first place?

4. Contra-indications: Unsafe speeds for indoors, fast jumps in-and-out of the saddle without rhime or reason (popcorn jumps), extremely inneficient upper body movement... I could go on and on...

If you must take a certification and your gym will pay for it, then do it until you can get get a better one. My advise would be to remain objective during your training and always remember the purpose of indoor cycling...

Off my soapbox now... :o

Alex

Alex,

I've been watching this thread without comment but I feel I have to step in and correct the errors in your post.

In particular, your final point about CI. Jumps do not exist at all in RPM (at least not for the past 2 years - I can't speak for earlier than that) so popcorn jumps definately never feature.

Regarding cadences, the instructor training is very hot on making sure that fast pedalling with little or no resistance is NEVER allowed. However, it is true that for short intervals cadence occassionally builds to 140 (but not higher), which is higher than MDA says is OK. LMI have done extensive research and found no evidence to show that short intervals at up to 140, with appropriate load, are detrimental. Maybe MDA would point at research that shows anything above 110/120 is dangerous - I don't klnow. So, I guess cadences are contraversial but I'm not sure about CI.

A quick visit to your other points:

1. Strict Sequence of Songs/Movements: when I walk into a room of 20 riders I generally see some who are "up for it" and some who aren't. I don't see all 20 in the same space. So, whether I am teaching Spinning or RPM, I give them options, encouraging those who need a hard workout to work hard and those who need lower intensity to take appropriate options. I don't chose a different workout for the entire group because a small number of participants have high or low energy today.

2. Plain Boredom. This is why I teach Spinning and RPM. I would get bored with RPM all the time. However, the odd thing is that with good instructors who mix in old RPM releases etc the classes at facilities I know are packed week after week and people stay with RPM for years. There must be something that keeps them coming back.

3. Performance Indicators: If an instructor is correctly using the information from the instructor training, choreography notes etc. they will provide participants with a lot of information about purpose (not only of the ride but each part of the ride) and they will talk about HR parameters, relating this to RPE. A less good instructor will not cover this, but that's not unique to RPM. The same goes for Spinning.

Enjoy your IDC, whether it is RPM, MDA or something else.

Paul

PaulD
03-28-2008, 06:47 AM
P.S. Just one other quick point to add. I did the MDA orientation years ago and have done a bunch of MDA CPD since then. My RPM certification was more recent. I have to say that the RPM certification was way more thorough than the MDA orientation and much more hands-on. I still love Spinning and would never want to give it up but I think if MDA were selective in what they took they could learn a lot from LMI about instructor training.

alexkaboom
03-28-2008, 08:25 AM
Alex,

I've been watching this thread without comment but I feel I have to step in and correct the errors in your post.

In particular, your final point about CI. Jumps do not exist at all in RPM (at least not for the past 2 years - I can't speak for earlier than that) so popcorn jumps definately never feature.

Regarding cadences, the instructor training is very hot on making sure that fast pedalling with little or no resistance is NEVER allowed. However, it is true that for short intervals cadence occassionally builds to 140 (but not higher), which is higher than MDA says is OK. LMI have done extensive research and found no evidence to show that short intervals at up to 140, with appropriate load, are detrimental. Maybe MDA would point at research that shows anything above 110/120 is dangerous - I don't klnow. So, I guess cadences are contraversial but I'm not sure about CI.

A quick visit to your other points:

1. Strict Sequence of Songs/Movements: when I walk into a room of 20 riders I generally see some who are "up for it" and some who aren't. I don't see all 20 in the same space. So, whether I am teaching Spinning or RPM, I give them options, encouraging those who need a hard workout to work hard and those who need lower intensity to take appropriate options. I don't chose a different workout for the entire group because a small number of participants have high or low energy today.

2. Plain Boredom. This is why I teach Spinning and RPM. I would get bored with RPM all the time. However, the odd thing is that with good instructors who mix in old RPM releases etc the classes at facilities I know are packed week after week and people stay with RPM for years. There must be something that keeps them coming back.

3. Performance Indicators: If an instructor is correctly using the information from the instructor training, choreography notes etc. they will provide participants with a lot of information about purpose (not only of the ride but each part of the ride) and they will talk about HR parameters, relating this to RPE. A less good instructor will not cover this, but that's not unique to RPM. The same goes for Spinning.

Enjoy your IDC, whether it is RPM, MDA or something else.

Paul

Hi Paul:

I’m glad you decided to come out of the woodwork… this always makes it for interesting discussions…

Let us assume that you do build up cadence to 140rpms with a light/moderate resistance load. What is a “short interval” considered in your view? 15, 30, 45 secs? In any case, HR will increase, considerably… is the purpose of this move to just increase HR or generate power? You can achieve both of these with alternate moves and lower cadences without sacrificing form and safety. What type of accommodations are done for students with knee injuries who wish to take the same benefit as others in the class? Do you cue similar ways to achieve this? I guess my real question is not do YOU, but instead, does RPM provide for this within their “choreography”? or just simply “take it at your own pace”?

What I’m trying to convey here is not what we decide to do as instructors, because many of us have enough training and common sense to take an orientation with a grain of salt, however, after years in the industry I’ve learned to avoid wasting time and money with organizations that do not provide but superficial (albeit profitable) fitness advise.

Back to my point, at this point cadence research by either company is questionable since “extensive research” doesn’t mean anything either… however, consider your population in class and choose cadences that are appropriate for your students. 140rpms will apply to cyclists who know what their doing, not a general population in an IDC room. It is irresponsible to advocate these high cadences in an orientation, no matter what brand of cycling it is.

1. Strict sequence/movements: In my experience with RPM (since 2002) I have not yet seen an instructor cue a class that wasn’t “choreographed”. They follow a strict sequence and everyone follows it. This is not about what you and I do as instructors, it is about what LMI tells you to do during their teacher training. Whether or not you as an instructor decide to apply common sense to your classes is up to you, but I do have a problem when modifications are lacking in principle directly from a fitness organization.
2. Plain Boredom: Again, the discussion is about what LMI advocates instructors to do, not what we do individually. As an RPM instructor, you cannot deviate from their “choreographed” profile or you cannot call it RPM. Simple. If you mix your RPM releases with other music, then you are giving an indoor cycling class, the boredom issue is fixed.
3. Performance indicators: Perhaps LMI has finally learned that providing guidance from a performance standpoint is actually useful… and you are correct, this is not unique to RPM instructors. In the early days and back a couple of years, this area of training was sorely lacking.

Any orientation will provide basics, some more than others. I do think that MDA provides a lot more information to instructors than LMI during and after orientation. It is our responsibility as instructors to continue learning beyond just the basics.

Kia Ora
Alex

SloSpin
03-28-2008, 10:05 AM
Alex, when was the last time you took an RPM class?

As for all your other points, here's an eye opener for you -
I have seen all these, and much more, out of STar 3 Spinning instructors.
All RPM does is give you a set off rules, like the outline of a puzzle. You fill it in yourself with the tools (Music and coaching models) that you are given every 3 months. If you have lots of releases, you can mix up the tunes to your heats contentment.
Speaking of music, there are many Spinning instructors who use the same old music time and time again. Yeah, that is boring.
Oh, and let me finish with the Star 3 instructor who has members take the seat off...

Is RPM perfect? No way. But than again, nor is Spinning. Everything is open to change, new ideas, and growth.
I can say that LMI sure puts money into both research and safety, more than I see Mad Dogg doing...

Okay, off the box, again. :)

Jpgirl
03-28-2008, 10:29 AM
Hey Alex
I can appreciate wehre you're coming from but have to ask the same question as Slo-when was the last time you took an RPM class.
I was EXTREMELY hestitant about taking the training-I'm Schwinn certified and an out door cyclist plus 15 years experience as Group Ex and Personal Trainer. We've come full circle-started out with a choreographer at our club-went to free style-now back to choreography/freestlye mix.
There absolutely no popcorn jumps-the closest I've seen is in Release 37-series of attacks-16ct out/16 count in. I cue some of my participants who can't/won't jump to pick a position.
As far as cadence goes-I had a conversation with the trainer to clear that up. Your normal participant can't do 140 under a load-heck even I can't go that fast, and most of my experienced riders don't go that fast either. Tracks 2,4,6 are ridden to each participants' personal cadence ladder. Ther are usually 3 different cadences used in those songs- I cue slow,medium and top pace. Those songs are not meant to be ridden to the beat. I have some riders whose cadence ladder is very slow and one rider who is a jack rabbit sprinter (he's the only one who rides like that outside too). Now Tracks 3,5,7 are to be ridden to the beat. I just had to have that conversation with the trainer because I took great exception to the 130-140 BPM music as it appeared that we were to ride that RPM.
I've been teaching RPM since the end of Jan. and I do find that choreography doesn't change much from release to release which makes it nice and a nightmare to learn at the same time. The 3 releases I have all have the same amount of hills in the hills track and the same amount of climbs in the mountain track. However, my students do not get bored-even the ones who take it twice a week. Thankfully I only teach it once a week and my other classes are freestyle so I can get creative there.
I'm sorry that the state of qulaity instructors has gone down hill so much that we have to go back to choreography. I see the need for it though. Most of the instructors I've met that are resistant to LM are really good creative instructors. Sadly there just aren't enough good instructors to cover all the classes. I've made my peace with it-teach it and am happy to be allowed to continue with my freestyle. My attitude about Body Pump is the same as yours about RPM. I put together and taught many strength and Step classes over the years that I felt (IMHO ;) are a lot better than LM. But I have a talent and while I can teach what I know to new instructors I can't teach them creativity-that's something each person has to find for themselves.
Good Luck

Robert
03-28-2008, 04:56 PM
I feel I have to chip in this one but mainly from an athlete's perspective (i.e., not from a MDA point of view).

Cadence - it's true that 140rpm is achieved by cyclists but (a) it's not on a fixed bike and (b) they have the sort of gear that you'd have for a climb. A real bike is more forgiving and allows you to achieve speeds greater than 110rpm - a fixed bike transmits all that energy back into your body, hence bouncing, sore knees, stiff shoulders, etc. So, if 99% of the population is unable to have the right resistance at that speed, why bother doing something potentially unsafe and unhealthy?

Strict Sequence - mixed answers above, so I'm guessing there's a misunderstanding. "LMI give you a set of rules" - exactly the point Alex was making. If you don't follow their rules, you could get caught out (LMI/BTS are upping their number of inspectors due to complaints about standards) and have you certificate revoked. Also, there's no room for periodisation, mesocycles, principles of training overload or specificity. RPM will keep you ticking over but you're very unlikely to develop your strength, power, fitness, etc. as much as tried-and-tested cycling training principles.

Plain Boredom - "You fill it in yourself with the tools (Music and coaching models) that you are given every 3 months. If you have lots of releases, you can mix up the tunes to your heats contentment." I think that proves the point - every THREE months??? One of the biggest comments from my classes is that (a) they like the fact the music is different (i.e., not techno, Top 40 or rock) and (b) that it's always changing profiles and music. And merely going back to previous releases (4 a year?) remains highly limiting and allows no input from the instructor. Personally, I find LMI/BTS's choice of music highly simplistic and narrow-focused.

Performance Indicators - good that they also cover HR, RPE, etc. but it remains nevertheless the same road in the same direction in the same order. All that can possibly change is effort level (allowing for lazy days, recovery, illness or just plain "not up for it")

Before you flame me, I'm not trying to say that one program's instructor is better than another. It's been rightly said that Spinning instructors can be just as bad, if not worse, as the worst examples of RPM. It's a personal thing, so I'm not going there.

However, from a training perspective, RPM does not meet the necessary requirements for muscular and cardiovascular development. I'm sure it's fun but it's not how an athlete would train. And, yes, you will tell me that most people aren't athletes and are just there to have fun. But if they're there to become leaner, increase their stamina, develop their strength or power, or even just to get confidence to be able to ride a century ride... well, I think that's most people in the gym.

So why Spinning for me? Unlike LMI, it gives you the basic science and leaves it up to you. While that means there'll be some really lousy instructors, there'll also be those that inspire. But I can see the reason for LMI's existence. As has been said above:

"Most of the instructors I've met that are resistant to LM are really good creative instructors. Sadly there just aren't enough good instructors to cover all the classes."

I just think that more time should be invested in making decent, creative instructors rather than making everyone conform to a profile and type of music set by someone on the other side of the world (e.g., much of the music that goes down well in the US would be hated over here - and viceversa, no doubt)

For what it's worth, I think the same about Body Pump - I've only ever met one instructor who had the guts to break the rules and make it into a proper, considered workout. Currently, the standard is rushed, highly choreographed, stretching is almost non-existent.

Again, I'm not having a go at LMI or Spinning or whoever. I'm just fed up with lousy instructors, repetitive profiles, music repeated ad nauseam.... pretty much most classes out there, unfortunately!

I've bored you long enough - time to go back to my cave....

SloSpin
03-28-2008, 05:23 PM
Allow me to be clear -
Both LMI and Freestyle teaching have their strengths and weaknesses.
And for the record, I mostly teach freestyle.

What bugs me is when folks are negative about something without having all the facts, or recent ones.
I teach BODYFLOW. I teach it twice a week. You are not likely to hear the same song twice in any given month, often even longer. Is it boring that we follow the same sequence each time? I think the pact classes would give a clear answer. Is this a better program than my freestyle Yoga and Pilates classes? It's different. It has exposed me to new music and new ways of thinking about HOW and WHY I instruct. It's been an added benefit and a valuable tool, via the 4 annual LMI continuing education sessions that is included in each release, in my quest to learn and get better at this gig we all are so passionate about.

It's cool not to dig a program, so no worries, eh? :)

Ripper
03-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Okay, time to ring in here.

Robert: I hope you are not really convinced about this statement you made: "RPM will keep you ticking over but you're very unlikely to develop your strength, power, fitness, etc. as much as tried-and-tested cycling training principles." I started taking RPM last January 2007, and between January and April, lost 70 lbs and increased my fitness level beyond imagination. I also became RPM certified soon after and have been teaching for almost a year now.

SloSpin: I believe you hit the nail on the head when you said that no program is perfect. I have taken many different formats of indoor cycling and found that no class has the perfect music. Sometimes I don't even remember the music or the actual routine. The one thing I do remember each and every class is the instructor. It's the instructor that brings the magic to the class.

You can sit and argue all day about which programs follows cadence rules, has better music, enhances fitness levels. If you have a good instructor leading the group, then all of this will follow no matter what program is being taught. It is the instructors job to not only know the concept of their ride, but to also adapt very quickly to each class to and be able to adjust or help the riders to adjust to the ride.

Do I prefer RPM? Yes... However, that doesn't mean that I don't also support the freestyle program that we have at our gym as well. I am a road cyclist outside of the gym....I just prefer RPM as I think it matches that style a little more closely on a more consistant basis for my indoor training (quick workouts).

Whichever program you prefer, support cycling and fitness....that is the most import thing to remember.

Paul S.
03-29-2008, 05:03 AM
Very interesting discussion going on here. If I may bring something else into it, is anyone familiar with what difference, if any, there is between RPM and Body Training Systems' Group Ride? I ask because there is a club in my area where Spinning and Group Ride coexist quite well. Last year, I taught Spinning there in a slot that had been Group Ride, but that did not go over well with the members so I was only there a few months. I did take a few of other instructors' Group Rides and there were a few strange things like HP3 in the saddle, but nothing blatantly CI. I'm also interested in this as I recently took the BTS Group Power training.

Jpgirl
03-29-2008, 01:02 PM
Don't know anything about BTS' Group ride but I can tell you that I know of instructor who is BTS certified in their Strength program and she got permission from LM to forgo the Pump training and all she has to do is submit her Pump video to get certified in Pump.

Jpgirl
03-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Robert-totally agree-especially about training creative instructors, the wall I've run into is that over time I've seen new instructors less willing to put the time into really learning the trade. I've tried to help a few, most of them weren't willing to listen or learn.
Also a question. Your statement about the cadences above 110. I'm a bit confused,was that on a fixed gear bike or fixed as in indoor bike? I am no pro by any means-riding sponsored rides and Sun. group rides-I rarely see riders exceed the 110 RPM on a road bike. As far as a training tool-I totally agree-I don't use RPM as training for my outdoor rides for all the reasons you stated.
I am teaching RPM though because I did not want to loose my class. The coordinator and I have an agreement-I keep classes and teach both freestyle and RPM. It works for me right now. I can branch out and work in other clubs but they are quickly following the LM suit

Robert
03-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Robert-totally agree-especially about training creative instructors, the wall I've run into is that over time I've seen new instructors less willing to put the time into really learning the trade. I've tried to help a few, most of them weren't willing to listen or learn.
Also a question. Your statement about the cadences above 110. I'm a bit confused,was that on a fixed gear bike or fixed as in indoor bike? I am no pro by any means-riding sponsored rides and Sun. group rides-I rarely see riders exceed the 110 RPM on a road bike. As far as a training tool-I totally agree-I don't use RPM as training for my outdoor rides for all the reasons you stated.
I am teaching RPM though because I did not want to loose my class. The coordinator and I have an agreement-I keep classes and teach both freestyle and RPM. It works for me right now. I can branch out and work in other clubs but they are quickly following the LM suit

Apologies - I meant fixed as in not having any wheels, rather than fixed-gear bike, i.e., track. Cadences in excess of 140rpm are not uncommon in track cycling and I managed to get a 125rpm cadence max reading on my last ride... but not sure where, as I didn't think I was pedalling particularly quickly! But, in terms of efficiency, it's rarely worth doing - high cadences are usually seen only in track cycling and in high-speed sprints at the end of a road race.

Jpgirl
03-30-2008, 02:26 PM
Thanks that's what I thought!! I do know one guy who has a naturally fast cadence. I used to think that in my class he would ride that fast without resistance but when I rode with him out doors sure enough he does have a naturally fast pace-uses good gear too-always drops me withing the first 5 miles.

On another note-I just am getting into #38. That'll make 4 releases I own. Maybe I'm cranky and out of sorts today, but the choreography is virtually the same in every release-it just changes slightly to go to the new music. I'm so bored with it!! gonna have to put on my big instructor smile to get through this releas!!

veranda
03-30-2008, 03:50 PM
I truly understand the benefit of this program for the director of the club and a Mommy teaching all kinds of classes to make ends meet. The director does not worry that 1 instructor is that much better or worse than another. A person pressed for time with kids and other things in life has the music and profile done for them. That's really the market for either RPM or Group Ride.

Hey AC,

I was totally agreeing with you till you wrote the above paragraph. I am MDA certified and I appreciate the freedom of the music and profile that comes with bulding your class. I am also a mommy and the only reason I got into teaching SPIN is because I really like spinning and the challenge that comes with it. I have not heard of any other spinning instructor that does it for money; au contraire considering the gas prices and little prizes these instructors give away to make the class more challenging and fun. There is no money in spinning unless you are a trainer or have a fitness business on the site. Thanks!

alexkaboom
03-31-2008, 07:53 AM
Alex, when was the last time you took an RPM class?

As for all your other points, here's an eye opener for you -
I have seen all these, and much more, out of STar 3 Spinning instructors.
All RPM does is give you a set off rules, like the outline of a puzzle. You fill it in yourself with the tools (Music and coaching models) that you are given every 3 months. If you have lots of releases, you can mix up the tunes to your heats contentment.
Speaking of music, there are many Spinning instructors who use the same old music time and time again. Yeah, that is boring.
Oh, and let me finish with the Star 3 instructor who has members take the seat off...

Is RPM perfect? No way. But than again, nor is Spinning. Everything is open to change, new ideas, and growth.
I can say that LMI sure puts money into both research and safety, more than I see Mad Dogg doing...

Okay, off the box, again. :)

D:

It's been about 3 years since I took an RPM class... so, if you'd like to tell me that things have improved since then, that's great! But I do believe that my point was missed...

We are assessing the various certifications for what they provide during teaching trainings... obviously, individual instructors can do whatever they want afterwards, both RPM, Group Ride, Schiwnn, Lemond, MDA... you name it... will likely (and hopefully) tailor their class according to population... is this the model that RPM condones though? Are the tools that are given to you every 3 months enough to incorporate sound cyling training for a variety of riders and athletes? In my opinion, No, you are TOO locked in to what LMI gives you to work with... Again we are talking about fitness training tools, music takes a second role to that...

On a totally different note, I do not particularly care for LMI marketing ploi... once instructors decide to work at a facility that is not LMI licensed they will no longer allow you to purchase releases... and you will need to continue to work at LMI licensed facilities to keep your certification current... has that change in the last 2-3 years too? I hope so. My certifications go back to when BTS was also LMI in the United States... when the split occured it created a lot of headaches for instructors that prefered to stick with LMI and worked in facilities that went with BTS... I lost a lot of money, I guess I'm still bitter!

Alex

joycenahorski
03-31-2008, 10:13 AM
I just finished the LM RPM training this weekend and something I haven't seen talked about on this thread that I was wondering about is the heartrate training they suggest. A couple of times during the ride they suggest to be at 95% of your heartrate. I always was understanding that 92% was the highest you should be at and only for a short time. When I questioned the instructor she said you are only at 95% for a short time and then changed the subject. What are all the feelings on this.

Joyce

:o

alexkaboom
03-31-2008, 10:34 AM
I just finished the LM RPM training this weekend and something I haven't seen talked about on this thread that I was wondering about is the heartrate training they suggest. A couple of times during the ride they suggest to be at 95% of your heartrate. I always was understanding that 92% was the highest you should be at and only for a short time. When I questioned the instructor she said you are only at 95% for a short time and then changed the subject. What are all the feelings on this.

Joyce

:o

Hi Joyce, I was wondering, could you still get in touch with your master instructor as ask the question?

I would be tempted to ask about the purpose of going to 95% MHR... I mean, we just wouldn't do 95% "just because we're there for only a short time" but instead, why do we select that particular heart rate at all? Maybe there is a specific training purpose...??? I doubt it but I'm just as puzzled as you are...

Certainly that would not be an appropriate HR range for newbies walking into the cycling room for the first time...

In my experience, the master instructors I've taken certs and CECs from have been kind enough to offer additional contact information or places where we could find answers to particular questions (Thanks JFK)... this would be the perfect opportunity for one of those follow up questions...

Did you get a manual? I wonder if perhaps thii would be addressed in the manual.

Alex

Jpgirl
03-31-2008, 06:38 PM
I'm with Alex on the HR question. 95% is well past any training benefit to the average participant-and something I would never encourage. Not like I'm a pro cyclist but I do train for outdoor rides and that's not a zone I need to train in. I'm pretty sure your trainer mispoke. Email and ask her to clarify and provide the research links to back up her statement.
Alex-as far as being able to address the needs of the beginner and the athlete-RPM is like any other cycling class-the sophisticated instructor should be able to coach to all populations. I'm not going to be the LM cheerleader (I get enough of that at my club)-I'm just saying it's another tool in my toolbox-not the best, not the worst. I'm using it to stay employed at this particular gym. If they go to all LM all the time-I'm out. and I probably won't go out and find work at another LM gym. The classes have vastly improved in just the last year-can't even imagine how they were 3 years ago. Try it again-you may find it's improved. Not perfect, but doable.

PaulD
04-01-2008, 04:39 AM
D:

It's been about 3 years since I took an RPM class... so, if you'd like to tell me that things have improved since then, that's great! But I do believe that my point was missed...

Alex


Alex, About 2 years ago LMI appointed a new programme director for RPM (a competitive outdoor cyclist with many years of experience). He had a very large number of changes to the program. I think this is part of the reason why there are people on this thread critisising RPM for thinks that RPM instructors know are not part of the programme (e.g. popcorn jumps). Views on RPM ought to be based on the program as it is today, not the programme as it was 3 or more years ago.

Kia Ora!

Paul

SloSpin
04-03-2008, 06:30 PM
D:

It's been about 3 years since I took an RPM class... so, if you'd like to tell me that things have improved since then, that's great! But I do believe that my point was missed...

We are assessing the various certifications for what they provide during teaching trainings... obviously, individual instructors can do whatever they want afterwards, both RPM, Group Ride, Schiwnn, Lemond, MDA... you name it... will likely (and hopefully) tailor their class according to population... is this the model that RPM condones though? Are the tools that are given to you every 3 months enough to incorporate sound cyling training for a variety of riders and athletes? In my opinion, No, you are TOO locked in to what LMI gives you to work with... Again we are talking about fitness training tools, music takes a second role to that...

On a totally different note, I do not particularly care for LMI marketing ploi... once instructors decide to work at a facility that is not LMI licensed they will no longer allow you to purchase releases... and you will need to continue to work at LMI licensed facilities to keep your certification current... has that change in the last 2-3 years too? I hope so. My certifications go back to when BTS was also LMI in the United States... when the split occured it created a lot of headaches for instructors that prefered to stick with LMI and worked in facilities that went with BTS... I lost a lot of money, I guess I'm still bitter!

Alex

Alex,
First, your bitterness is very much understood. Thank you for sharing what you went through as a result of the breakup. I know too many others in the same boat. For a while, our very small community was very split.

I feel that LMI gives me more tools than I have gotten from others. Yes, I pay for them, but these have been timely, helpful and backed by good sources.

Yes, they still have a hold on you. But it is their brand after all, so I guess they can have whatever "quality control" measures that work for them. These don't bother me. I know all this going in.

As we have all said, in our own way, training is just that. A foundation. What we do to build on it is what separates the good from the great, inho. CEC's, events, workshops, other trainings, etc.

RPM, the training and program, both have a place on this IC playing field.

One last point, and I promise it will be my last on thread, is that although many of you make the connection between training outdoors and your classes indoors (as well as riding both, of course) others of us teach this class for it's cardio and strength benifits alone. We therefor may look at the same issue with very different lenses.

Peace.

Jpgirl
04-04-2008, 02:18 PM
You make excellant points Slo Spin. I especially agree about outdoor/indoor riding. Sometimes I forget that most of my class members come to the cycling room for exercise-not for training indoors for outdoors. LM is about group exercise-not outdoor riding come inside. Just as I'm sure there are body builders that scoff at BP or die hard yoga or pilates students scoffing at Flow. I know my outdoor riders don't like RPM but they do come and do it. My group ex students like it-espically the shorter format-and no 5 plus minute hills or long break away sprints but they all like my freestyle-especially when there are sound effects (ie dogs barking to make you sprint) to motivate them. My biggest concern is being able to teach freestyle-SOMEWHERE. With so many gyms going to LM-I'm beginning to feel like I'm going the way of the dinosaurs

Robert
04-04-2008, 03:17 PM
It may be a UK-only thing again but, in the only gym I know (out of 30 or so where I have taught) to introduce RPM (and, even then, only part of a "everything BTS" package), it is highly UNpopular. Members don't like the repetitive structure of the ride, the monotonous music and the lack of specification (although they like how it works for Body Pump et al). And they're not athletes by any margin, not even outdoor riders. The only reason they've put it on the timetable is because BTS have demanded it, as part of their teaching the rest of the BTS suite.

I'm sure there's a place for it somewhere but it's not really "bought" over here - clubs don't like it, instructors don't like it, members don't like it.

kt74
04-07-2008, 07:19 AM
It may be a UK-only thing again but, in the only gym I know (out of 30 or so where I have taught) to introduce RPM (and, even then, only part of a "everything BTS" package), it is highly UNpopular. Members don't like the repetitive structure of the ride, the monotonous music and the lack of specification (although they like how it works for Body Pump et al). And they're not athletes by any margin, not even outdoor riders. The only reason they've put it on the timetable is because BTS have demanded it, as part of their teaching the rest of the BTS suite.

I'm sure there's a place for it somewhere but it's not really "bought" over here - clubs don't like it, instructors don't like it, members don't like it.

Jeez, some of you guys really have got it in for RPM, haven't you?! As the peeps above say, each indoor cycling programme has its pros and cons, and RPM is just the same. And you're right, the best RPM class will never be as good as the best freestyle class... But that doesn't mean that RPM isn't any good

Where have you been teaching in London, Robert?! Members at certain clubs have been very sniffy about RPM. Take a very famous chain with branches in Barbican, Moorgate and Canary Wharf. The members there absolutely refuse to go to RPM. And yet, take my word for it, some of their most popular instructors actually teach RPM during the generic "indoor cycle" classes - as, indeed, do some of the instructors at a famous club chain with branches at Cannon Street and Covent Garden

My theory... the members hate RPM because other freestyle instructors have been b1tching about it, not because they know anything about it. And, in fact, that theory also seems to hold true about many posters on this forum thread

In fact, I just did my RPM training, and I'm beginning to hate RPM, because, thanks to all the recent innovations, it is becoming more like an outdoor cycling workout rather than an aerobic fitness workout. If I wanted an outdoor cycling work, I'd get on a bike. If I want 45 minutes of sweat, I need to work to the beat of the music, rather than follow some contra-beat cadence ladder designed to mimic a ride outside :confused:

Jpgirl
04-09-2008, 12:36 PM
Trust me KT74-RPM is NOTHING like outdoor riding. Yes there have been some changes but only for the good of the program, but it has a very long long way to go before it can be described as "like outdoors". Any cycling instructor worth their while should understand cadence ladders. LM did not just come up with this. It would be very boring to ride an entire class without changing cadence. What I do like about RPM is that it encourages everyone to ride their own cadence ladder not their neighbors' or the instructor's-something I've been coaching way before I took RPM training. I don't consider this particular post bashing or having it out for LM-just a bunch of instructors having a spirited conversation about a program. It's just another program not the second coming to cycling. I do teach it and I promote it to the class times I teach-I also promote my free style to that time. I just get tired of the hype-like it's the do all end all of cycling (or whatever)programs.
The new thing I've run across-(twice in a week) is LM instructors passing themselves off as 'Certified'. I'm not sure if these 2 instructors are clueless or if LM isn't making it clear-if you're certified with LM to do a program-you're only certified for that program. If you don't hold a nationally recognized general certification (ie ACE or AFFA-ect) then you are not certified to teach anything else.

kkoplien
04-09-2008, 01:44 PM
As an outdoor cyclist myself - and speaking for the other cyclists who go out of their way to take my RPM classes because the like RPM - we would disagree with the RPM criticisms posted here. But everyone's entitled to their opinions.:)

I am curious though...

I am CERTiFIED by Les Mills to teach RPM.

I am CERTIFIED by Les Mills to teach Bodypump.

I am CERTIFIED by Mad Dogg Athletics to teach Spinning.

I am not certified by AFAA. ($300 and a one day training doesn't seem worth it for something I don't currently need.)

I am not certified by ACE. That one looks tough. I watched my wife get her ACE certification.

What word other than "certified" should we LM instructors be using?

KK

PS - FWIW LM Quarterly workshops do earn ACE and AFAA CEC's.

Jpgirl
04-09-2008, 04:18 PM
You are certified to teach the LM programs and Spinning
You shouldn't be trying to apply at clubs/gyms who do not have LM licenses to teach freestyle classes.
The club I was at does not have nor intends to have a LM license-they want nationally certified instructors. The applicant thought since she was LM certified she could teach classes-she was actually very confused as to why she couldn't teach Body Combat. Hence my comment
The base certifications provide a well rounded foundation for other certifications to build on. They provide the information you need to teach.
When I went through RPM (Nov. 07) all they really taught was choreography, bike set up (preliminary at best) and fitness magic. That doesn't even begin to touch upon what you need to know as an instructor. No discussion on anatomy, physiology,kinesiology, energy systems, heart rate monitoring, safety.
For example-what do you do if a participant can't get his heart rate above 50% in his workout-ever? This actually happened to me. The woman was very upset, blaming me as the instructor, for her not getting a good workout. So what would you say?? Work harder? Well because I bothered to get ACE certified I asked her what meds she's taking. Lo and behold she's on a Beta Blocker. Do you know how Beta Blockers effect the body-specifically the heart rate? Do you think you should know that?? How many people in your class could be on Beta Blockers or any other medications that could effect their exercise regimen? This woman was very grateful that I had the knowledge to explain to her why she couldn't get her heart rate up and to not use the HR monitor but use the Borg scale instead.

So in answer to your question You're certified to teach the LM programs that you trained in at LM licensed gyms and clubs.
You're certified to teach SPINNING(I'm not familiar with SPINNING's regulations on where you can teach)
If I were a GFM I probably wouldn't hire someone who thought a base certification wasn't "worth it or not needed" or "too tough". That's a huge disservice for all of us Fitness Professionals who thought it was worth it to our clients. I'm sure if I polled my classes the people in them would certainly think they were worth it for me to get as much education possible.
I hope you rethink the worth of a nationally recognized certification-your members will thank you

Robert
04-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Sounds like it's not mandatory in the US but it has become so in the UK (or at least for most of the gyms). The route now before teaching ANY class is a gym instructor or exercise to music qualification to cover the basics (anatomy, etc.). On top of that there's an essential requirement for a CPR course to validate your insurance (also essential). Finally, there's your program qualification (BP, RPM, Spinning, whatever).

As JP says, only those that have taken it will know its value - although I've been cycling for most of my 37 years, I did learn some useful basic info from my gym instructor course that I carried across into my training regime and into my classes.

Easier said than done, though - I guess it depends on how much (or little) money your making from teaching. Judgement call, in that case.

Jpgirl
04-09-2008, 05:16 PM
No not mandatory here in the States-but maybe it should be. I know there has been serious discussion to have state licensure for personal trainers-something we have been trying to avoid by standardizing certifications. I would hate to see the government get involved but we need to prove that we can self govern-I'm thinking that needs to happen in Group Ex too. I had taken a long haitus from training and group ex and did not realize, until I came back, how bad it is with so many uncertified instructors teaching. Most of the gyms have tightened up their restrictions, but not all. It used to be that in order for you to take some of the specific trainings (Reebok Step-yep I'm dating myself now) that you had to show proof of your base certification. Now, not so. I try hard to advise the up coming instructors to get those certs and not just rely on programs like LM. I've been in the industry a while (15 years certified and another 3 as a participant/non teaching instructor) and I've seen these choreography program come and go and come back. Maybe Lm will be big enough to withstand the tide of freestyle-but from what I've seen in the past gyms/club/instructors get tired of the fees-especially the gyms/clubs. They phased out the choreographer our city Y's had-leaving a lot of instructors who couldn't teach freestyle in a huge lurch.
Oh well-enough yakking-off to audition

kkoplien
04-09-2008, 05:34 PM
This thread is officially going off topic but I'll continue...

For the record I do have my CPR cert. We all should.

My comment about AFAA was based on the fact my wife got her AFAA cert and didn't learn anything she didn't already learn through her LM trainings. How much can you really learn in one day about general group fitness? I've heard members of this very forum trash AFAA's cycling "certification".

ACE - I agree that would be the cert to have if I was to get one. I hear ASCM is good too.

JP good on you for fishing out the beta blockers. If a participant came to me with the symptoms you described common sense would tell me that something is amiss and - no - my advice would not be to work harder. Questions about their health, illnesses, overtraining would have come to mind. I may not have identified the blockers and probably would have advised that they question their physician. Glad you were able to diagnose on the spot. I'll have to go home and look that up in my wife's ACE book.

Thanks for the clarifications on what my "certifications" allow me to teach. Though I was already pretty clear on that.

I am a certified RPM instructor teaching 2 classes a week who enjoys riding outside whenever I can. When I can quit my day job and make group fitness my full time career I will consider more rigorous training certifications - unless of course regulations change that require that sooner.

KK

kt74
04-09-2008, 06:28 PM
Back on topic...


Trust me KT74-RPM is NOTHING like outdoor riding. Yes there have been some changes but only for the good of the program, but it has a very long long way to go before it can be described as "like outdoors". Any cycling instructor worth their while should understand cadence ladders. LM did not just come up with this. It would be very boring to ride an entire class without changing cadence. What I do like about RPM is that it encourages everyone to ride their own cadence ladder not their neighbors' or the instructor's-something I've been coaching way before I took RPM training. I don't consider this particular post bashing or having it out for LM-just a bunch of instructors having a spirited conversation about a program. It's just another program not the second coming to cycling. I do teach it and I promote it to the class times I teach-I also promote my free style to that time. I just get tired of the hype-like it's the do all end all of cycling (or whatever)programs.

Errr, I didn't say it was like outdoor cycling! I said it was getting *more* like outdoor cycling and *less* influenced by the beat of the music. And I don't have problems with changing cadence, but it would be useful for the ladder to be signalled by a change in the music (e.g. a quiet pre-chorus for 2x8 cts). In recent releases, there seem to be a lot more cadence changes for the sake of it, and extended periods of cycling off the beat (e.g. almost all of the warm up to RPM38, where I've been told by a trainer that 1/1 is too fast, but 1/2 is too slow :confused:)

Nor do I think that RPM is the "second coming" to cycling. But I do get really fed up of the constant RPM-bashing from many other indoor cyclists (and reading this thread from start to finish reminded me why I don't visit this forum very much...)

Look, RPM is just another cycling-based indoor group fitness programme, that has a perfectly valid place on most studio timetables as an adjunct to (not replacement for) a freestyle cycle class. And, personally, I enjoy RPM exactly *because* it's nothing like outdoor cycling - it's simply a motivating pre-choreographed group fitness cardio workout, which happens to be on a bike

Jpgirl
04-09-2008, 06:51 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree:). I beleive it's more like group fitness on the bike and doesn't resemble outdoor riding at all. As far as riding to the beat.. Tracks 3,5, & 7 are ridden to the beat while 2,4, & 6 are ridden to each individual's cadence ladder-so there's a great mix-and sound reasoning to why they do it like that. As an instructor you have to respect each member's cadence rythm. If you have a faster cadence and pick music to reflect that you're asking slower riders to go faster or slower than they like or are able. For instance when I first started riding outdoors my hill climbing cadence was 65 RPM-over the years I've sped up-now I average 75-80. I've become way more comfortable at 80RPM. I would be remiss if I expected my inexperienced riders to climb to my 80 RPM Music (160 BPM) and expected them to sprint at 110 RPM. But I coach them to go at different speeds for them. Who cares if I have 2 different riders climbing at 2 different rates-as long as they're working on a hill when I'm coaching a hill. I choose my music accordingly-I'll do hills anywhere from 120 BPM(a really slow steep hill) to 160BPM (a fast rolling hill). I'll ride to the beat and let my class know that my cadence is at the music beat and they're welcome to ride slower or faster as long as the pace reflects the work.
As far as the "bashing"-I don't see it as such. There are instructors that don't like the program and are welcome to voice their opinions. I've got a Schwinn cycling cert and I've read some "bashing" as you call it. I don't take it personally-I realize everyone has their favorite and their non favorite programs. As I've said I teach both RPM and freestyle. They both have psoitives and negatives. I think you may want to listen to both sides-do your homework and do what's best for you. Good luck on your video

Paul S.
04-13-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm finally getting around to responding to a few things on this thread...

...We are assessing the various certifications for what they provide during teaching trainings... obviously, individual instructors can do whatever they want afterwards, both RPM, Group Ride, Schwinn, Lemond, MDA... you name it...
Alex
You're right about instructors doing what they want. I'm at one place that is on the Schwinn program, another on a very similar program, which uses intensity zones numbered 1 through 4. I've recently taken classes from a half dozen instructors at these places and not one of them ever mentioned the zones. They almost never used the very specific cueing techniques that are part of these programs. Now they all did very safe and effective classes (nothing like the all jump class mentioned on another thread), just not the program we are supposed to be doing.

The Spinning instructors at a place I was a member before I became an instructor were much more faithful to the Spinning program. Unfortunately, I'm not teaching at an official Spinning facility now.

I contrast this with my experience with BTS Group Power. Having recently taken the training for it, I've taken classes from several other Power instructors, certified many years ago, and I'll have to say they are all still very much on the program. I don't mean just the programming (choreography - actually I think they all mess it up a bit occasionally) but all the little things that make Power different from other barbell classes. I think the reason for this is they have to learn the new release every three months, watching the video to learn all the fine points. Each new release is in effect continuing ed. How many non-BTS/LMI instructors take CE every 3 months? I'm sorry I'm not very familiar with Group Ride, and not at all with LMI, but I think the same principles would apply. Perhaps someone else can shed some light.


...On a totally different note, I do not particularly care for LMI marketing [ploy]... once instructors decide to work at a facility that is not LMI licensed they will no longer allow you to purchase releases... and you will need to continue to work at LMI licensed facilities to keep your certification current...
Alex
Again, I can't speak for LMI, but most all the BTS instructors I know also teach at non-BTS facilities. Of course, you're not supposed ;) to use BTS music or programming in non-BTS classes.


...My comment about AFAA was based on the fact my wife got her AFAA cert and didn't learn anything she didn't already learn through her LM trainings. How much can you really learn in one day about general group fitness? I've heard members of this very forum trash AFAA's cycling "certification"....KK
You don't learn that much in one day, you learn it when you study the book in advance to prepare for the closed-book, timed test at the end of the day. I did learn some things that have made me a better cycling instructor. I didn't get as much out of preparing for the practical test, since it is based on teaching a typical "aerobics" (what the first A in AFAA stands for) class of 20 years ago. One of my GXDs has suggested that instructors with only a cycling, yoga, or BTS cert should get an ACE or AFAA primary cert.

AFAA does not have a cycling certification, only a workshop. I was not impressed with AFAA's Resistance Training workshop.

Jpgirl
04-30-2008, 08:18 PM
For me, CEU's are on going. I belong to IDEA and being triple certified through ACE-I get all their publications-which I read. I read info here and on the LM and then research it if I question it. I attend the IDEA World Fitness every year (have been for the last 12 years) and occassionaly I get an online course that interests me-in addition to the LM quarterly release. So far, the releases have been small refreshers of info I've previous learned. I know-I'm the exception to the rule-but guess I do it to make sure I'm fresh. I'm sure we all know someone who still teaches and isn't current.
Today I'm feeling a little sour on the whole LM program. Can't really go into it on a public forum but I'm beginning to get the impression that some clubs who run LM would rather have a newly LM certified instructor (who has NEVER taught Group Ex) over a very experienced, many certifications instructor. I'm expecting an anouncement in the next year (maybe sooner) that our club will go with all LM programs. It scares me as I have seen several people with no experience in the fitness industry-attend an intial training and start teaching within a week. I like teaching RPM but I don't want to give up my freestyle. Neither program is more popular at our club-probably because our freestyle instructors are so experienced. Between 5 instructors there's probably 65 years worth of experience. Oh well enough whining-off to profiling tomorrow night's ride

buford
08-19-2008, 05:13 PM
I'm trying not to be too negative here. Why is it that no one has mentioned that the instructors are required to pay for new tracks? Oh, about every 3 months. Even though the music can change the profile is always the same with RPM. Our club is pushing RPM only because our assistant director is Les Mills certified and will probably get a kick back if RPM is brought in.

If RPM were that good then you'd see more clubs bringing it in...that's just not happening. LM should stick with their bread and butter, Body Pump. It's a great program and that's what's got LM's foot in the door.

I'm certified in MD, and Lemond. I've been in a few trial RPM classes and can tell you I"m not impressed. It takes creativity out of the instructors hands. IE.... follow this months profile....

Not for me
Just my thought
buford

SloSpin
08-19-2008, 09:10 PM
Some folks, like you and I, love creating our own profiles. Some members love that as well. There are, however, great instructors who would rather not have to put things together and just use that energy to teach a great class.
Also, in that quarterly release are educational sessions and notes. This is true for all Les Mills programs.


There are no kickbacks, that is plain silly of you to even say.

it's a big, beautiful world, and there is room for many different styles of indoor cycle.

You know what? There are plenty of cyclists who think Spinning is a joke.
To each their own.

buford
08-20-2008, 10:47 AM
Slospin, I don't disagree with you regarding there being room for other classes. What I don't agree with is paying for quarterly releases.

I at time feel Spinning has become less than it once was.... Very caught up in the commercial aspects. I guess that's what happens. I do think that clubs should offer variety. Let the members decide..

Just my thoughts.
buford

Paul S.
08-21-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm trying not to be too negative here. Why is it that no one has mentioned that the instructors are required to pay for new tracks? Oh, about every 3 months. Even though the music can change the profile is always the same with RPM....


I spend about as much money on music for the cycling classes I design myself as I would on a BTS release every three months. If I put some value on the time I spend on designing the profiles, vs. having the programming already done for me, the BTS release would surely be cheaper. Plus there's continuing ed on the video that I have to pay for separately in programs like Spinning.

Regarding the profile, yes the overall structure of the class is the same in every release, but there's considerable variety within each track from release to release. I've found that most participants in my cycling classes like an all-terrain profile pretty similar to the Group Ride profile, so that's what I usually give them.


Slospin, I don't disagree with you regarding there being room for other classes. What I don't agree with is paying for quarterly releases.

I at time feel Spinning has become less than it once was.... Very caught up in the commercial aspects. I guess that's what happens. I do think that clubs should offer variety....


I taught for a while at a club where Spinning and Group Ride have coexisted well for years. (Unfortunately for me, they put my Spinning class in a slot that had been Ride, which did not go over well with the members.)

I'll have to agree that MDA has let Spinning slip a bit since I became an instructor 4 years ago. They're promoting the new separate Spin Pilates cert but haven't come up with much new CE for their original program. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to them that happened to AFAA - getting complacent with their status as the leader in their field, then letting making money take precedence over serving their instructors.

kkoplien
08-24-2008, 12:48 PM
...What I don't agree with is paying for quarterly releases...

As you must know, MDA makes you pay for X number of Spinning Star Points every two years buy taking CE courses. If you fall short at the end of two years either you cram a bunch of CE courses that may be useless to you or pay $249 ($249 last time I checked) for an online recertification. What's the difference?

With LM - for the same or less money you get music, profiles, and CE.

I am certified in both MDA and LM RPM. The more I teach RPM the more I don't see myself going back to Spinning. My own profiles and style of teaching were very similar to RPM even before I new what RPM was. I would put a lot of time into my music and profiles - it's nice having that done for me so I can focus on just teaching.

There is this notion out there that RPM is for instructors who are not capable or who are too lazy to put there own rides together. Nothing could be further from the truth. In many ways teaching RPM (for me) is harder than teaching Spinning. The two programs are just different. To each their own.

Yes variety is good. at our club we have both programs. They both do well.

KK