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Cathy Ruzicka
09-12-2006, 11:45 AM
I have been getting alot of newbies, which is great, one of my regulars has been promoting the class, she is wonderful. I always ask about any injuries or if they have tried spinning before, and then i proceed into proper bike setup. I always stress that the ball of the foot is centered over the middle of the pedal which depending on your foot size does not automatically mean for them to place their foot all the way into the cages, seat height i always check with 6 and 12 o'clock postioning that their is a slight bend in their knee, fore and aft postioning with feet at 3 and 9 o'clock their knees are aligned over the middle of the foot or shoelace area, my question is, are there any tips or advice to give to new participants with knee issues, one woman said she felt more comfortable placing her foot all the way in the cage, that it took pressure off her knees, i told her go with what is more comfortable for her, i am always concerned about new participants safety, please help me with any advice, it would be greatly appreciated, cheeze, are you there?

megale3
09-12-2006, 11:49 AM
cheeze, are you there?

Yah Cheeze- come on dude lets hear it :)
Meg

veespin
09-12-2006, 02:13 PM
are there any tips or advice to give to new participants with knee issues, one woman said she felt more comfortable placing her foot all the way in the cage, that it took pressure off her knees

Not so much a definitive answer.....rather a "lets think about it logically"

New participant, right? Setting up early on/start of the ride, right? Still in the saddle, no doubt...or at least, easy pedalling? Where was the pressure on her knees coming from?

Even if she did have her feet jammed right into the cages (which a good many participants will do regardless of what we say) I can't see just how this small difference can alter the biomechanics sufficiently to make a difference to any potential pressure on her knees.

I suspect she just feels more secure with her foot there for the time being and wants to keep it right there no matter what you say is a better position and "taking pressure off her knees" sounds less of a lame excuse than "I like it better this way"

When I first took over one of my regular spots, I inherited a class participant who had his saddle way too high such that, even with pointing his toes, he rolled from side to side in the saddle (must've done a number on his undercarriage.....best not think about it) Seems he'd had knee replacement surgery and this "felt better" to him.

I pointed out that on a number of different occasions and in a variety of ways that this sort of poor position can bugger up the very best that Nature supplies us with and is likely to have an even worse effect on Man's poor substitute. His reply?.....his doctor said it was OK. Did I leave it go? No I didn't. I called his bluff. I have a couple of orthopod cronies who compete in multisport and I'd already asked them if there was a good reason why bike set up should be any different following joint replacement surgery and was there any rationale to giving what amounts to faulty advice (if in fact said advice really had been given) so I knew I wasn't talking out of my derriere.

So, I asked him if his physician was a cyclist and, if so, had he actually set him up in this position for a valid reason. Of course, the answers were no. I wasn't trying to score points or make the bloke feel small or anything but stoopid is stoopid and sometimes you can't let folk run the risk of hurting themselves without putting up a good fight.

Vivienne

veespin
09-12-2006, 02:30 PM
I'm signed up for Josh's bike fit workshop at the upcoming TSI Summit in NYC. I've done the class once before at last year's ECA.....it was supposed to be "Sprinting Like A Champion" but he made an executive decision to switch the course because I guess he was a bit startled by what he was looking at among the class participants (instructors).

Josh.....when you're teaching regular folk and setting them up, do you get the sort of resistance to adopting a good position that the rest of us do? How far do you reckon to push it before you decide that the member isn't going to change?

Vivienne

raptor
09-12-2006, 06:15 PM
Not so much a definitive answer.....rather a "lets think about it logically"

New participant, right? Setting up early on/start of the ride, right? Still in the saddle, no doubt...or at least, easy pedalling? Where was the pressure on her knees coming from?

Even if she did have her feet jammed right into the cages (which a good many participants will do regardless of what we say) I can't see just how this small difference can alter the biomechanics sufficiently to make a difference to any potential pressure on her knees.
...
Vivienne

Moving your foot a centimeter or more affecting your knees makes perfect sense to me. Depending on the resistance, we might be putting 100 lbs or much more on that small pivot once per second, for many minutes. Repeat every day or two. Under a cm, maybe not.

If our saddle is a cm too far forward or back, we expect (or are not surprised by) knee or other issues. Why shouldn't the foot position have the same effect?

Lynn

veespin
09-13-2006, 10:53 AM
Moving your foot a centimeter or more affecting your knees makes perfect sense to me. Depending on the resistance, we might be putting 100 lbs or much more on that small pivot once per second, for many minutes. Repeat every day or two.

I don't doubt it for a second and this being the case, the member might well find this out for herself once she graduates to this volume of riding....especially if she manages to resist buying cycling shoes with properly installed cleats (giving her no choice of where her foot goes)

However, the example Cathy gave was with a new member so I assume the exchange took place within the first few minutes of getting on the bike for the very first time.....it's hard to see how someone who doesn't have really acute problems would be able to make this assessment under the easiest of cycling conditions. Come to that, if their knees are really so sensitive maybe cycling might be a bad idea anyway, with or without ideal position and form.

My point is that a good many new members are going to come to Spinning with their own ideas of what the bike should feel like.....often comparing it with a stationary or even a recumbent bike....and the "right" position feels so awkward that they'll come up with all sorts of excuses (valid to them, of course) to avoid moving out of their comfort zone.

Vivienne