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iRideIndoors
02-23-2012, 06:02 AM
Has anyone checked out Jennifer Sage (Funhog) new article on Active.com? The Truth About Indoor Cycling Cadence adds some good perspective to this on-going debate in the IC arena - what are good ranges to ride in/have your riders in?

antsmands
02-24-2012, 11:19 AM
Has anyone checked out Jennifer Sage (Funhog) new article on Active.com? The Truth About Indoor Cycling Cadence adds some good perspective to this on-going debate in the IC arena - what are good ranges to ride in/have your riders in?

I agree with with this article. Being primarily an outdoor cyclist it really disturbes me to see instructors and students in some spin class I have attended spinning unnecassary high rpm and bouncing in the seat to do it. You could never get away with this outdoors and it is very inefficient and dangerous indoors with a flywheel providing inertia and inexperienced riders. From my perspective the upper limit of about 100rpm is more that enough to get the job done. Smoothness and form is much more important than super high rpms and will help protect people from injury!

Cyclegirl
02-24-2012, 08:05 PM
I took a class the other day and the instructor was about to bounce right off the saddle at about 120 rpm's and then she hopped out of the saddle and kept the speed up to over 100 out of the saddle with her feet slamming in the bottom of each pedal stroke. Not sure which was more painful....her butt, her knees, or me having to watch.

cyclecycle
02-26-2012, 02:18 PM
When I start a class, or workout, one of the first things I do is set parameters on the top end of the rpms I allow in my class. I tell them, 'if I see you going super fast, bouncing around in your saddle, or going higher than X rpm's, I will come by and adjust the gearing for you.'

I remind them of this throughout the class if it's a higher rpm set. And then I follow through.

claircafaro
02-26-2012, 09:08 PM
Pedalling at High Cadences:
Individuals pedal at high cadences thinking that their body is working harder and burning more calories. However, pedalling too fast or with too little resistance causes pedals to bottom out because the flywheel, not the individual, is in control. Injuries occur in and around the knees because the quadricep muscles are not engaging. The quadricep muscles contract to assist in keeping the patella (kneecap) tracking correctly. If the legs are moving without enough resistance the quadriceps will not contract to keep the patella tracking properly, leaving it vulnerable to injury. More resistance means more activation, increased muscle strength and endurance, equalling more caloric expenditure and less stress on joints and connective tissue. ~ C.O.R.E Cycling®

sue
02-26-2012, 09:50 PM
Cyclecycle, please don't adjust the gear/resistance for them. Tell them but don't touch their controls, that is a no no. If I was riding and an instr. came by & did that I would be furious. Explain to them that they need to put more resist. on, that they are not getting any good benefits by going that fast & bouncing in the saddle. It is a very touchy thing to change their resistance. If they are pedalling really fast & you slam on the resistance they could get hurt by the sudden slowdown.
Knowledge is everything:)

Lbarta
02-27-2012, 09:33 AM
Riding at that fast cadence is so bad for Hip, knees, back. I am not sure how people can do it and walk out of class without an injury!

start
02-27-2012, 10:04 AM
I agree with Sue. All I can do is explain why riding at a high cadence is ineffective and potentially dangerous; I would never adjust someone's resistence. I talk about it a few times in class and will speak to someone individually, if necessary. Actually, I will tell them that they don't have to slow down much, but suggest that they add just enough resistence to get quiet in the saddle. In my experience, some people listen and others don't. There's not much more I can do.

blaning
02-27-2012, 03:07 PM
I agree with Sue. All I can do is explain why riding at a high cadence is ineffective and potentially dangerous; I would never adjust someone's resistance. I talk about it a few times in class and will speak to someone individually, if necessary. Actually, I will tell them that they don't have to slow down much, but suggest that they add just enough resistance to get quiet in the saddle. In my experience, some people listen and others don't. There's not much more I can do.
I agree also. I have several people that continually spin their legs at an inordinate rate. This is on "hill" sections of the class as well. I've never gotten off the bike to admonish them to slow down, but will tell the entire class the benefits of slower cadence with slightly more resistance. Those that choose to follow my lead will have the most success. The others I just hope don't become injured during my sessions.

cyclecycle
02-27-2012, 07:29 PM
Sue, with all due respect, I wouldn't slam on the resistance someone is spinning fast. I guess I should have clarified so people don't assume anything. I think I've gotten off the bike once in my several years of teaching and walked over to a regular who was about to fly off their bike so I could quietly say, 'let's slow down and add some gearing.' then explain why.

I also don't 'admonish' them in front of the whole class.

EuroD
02-28-2012, 01:03 PM
Not everyone 'understands' what bouncing in the saddle means or even looks like, despite the fact that they are doing it.
If I have new people in the class (even if it's 1 new person), I will first explain, and then show. If you need to turn your bike perpendicular to them, then do it, so your participants can see how ridiculous it looks. I exaggerate a little 'for effect', however, we actually do see participants nearly coming out the saddle because of the bounce. During the class, I will remind my riders, if we are simulating a flat road, that if the resistance feels light, then it usually is.

As for cadence, there are participants who naturally turn the pedals at a higher cadence than others even with adequate resistance. I am one of those, and again, I tell my riders that I have a natural disposition to a higher cadence. If you have riders that look like they're in control, are not bouncing in the saddle and appear to have a higher cadence (remember this is your perception), then let them be.

Funhog
02-28-2012, 05:00 PM
EuroD has a good point. It's all about skill. If someone can handle that leg speed without bouncing, it usually is ok, but it's also important to remember that once you start getting over 110rpm, they would be better off a bit slower with a higher gear/resistance. Depends on the goals of the class too. If it's a specifically leg-speed profile, like intervals at 100, 105, 110, and 115 rpm, then that's your objective - a neuromuscular focus. But if they're just pedaling along at 115 or 120rpm in an endurance-based workout, one would think they might like a higher power output at a lower cadence = more calories burned.

Spin_me
02-29-2012, 02:23 AM
Jennifer, i think the Spinning Program reduce max RPM from 120 to 110 many years ago, i think a a good idea. If the students have problems with cycling 110RPM there´s no problem to reduce cadence. In my eyes the less resistance is the main problem and not the maximum rpm. The reality is that a lot of students don´t have enough basic endurance to cycle with enough resistance.....no matter slow or fast!

Lbarta
02-29-2012, 11:46 AM
Totally agree!

Todd S
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Given the following:

1) Optimal cadence increases with power output to minimize muscular fatigue. (We don't choose cadence to minimize O2 consumption, otherwise we'd all be choosing cadences closer to 60 rpm rather than 90 rpm.)

2) Only stress along the force velocity curve can provide adaptive overload to targeted muscle fibers (not well below the curve like a low power - high cadence effort provides).

3) High cadences at low power (low force) is not specific to how a rider would ever ride with proper gear choices available.

The only high cadence training that makes any sense at all is at power levels approaching your all out max (true sprint training). Neuomuscular training is not about pedaling fast, it's about pedaling fast against maximal load (for that specific cadence or muscle shortening velocity). Your butt aint bouncing in the saddle at maximal power levels no matter how fast you're turning the pedals because by definition the only way you can put that kind of power to the pedals is with a strong downstroke. With a strong downstroke, unweighting the upstroke comes naturally. It's at low force - high cadence that you're not applying force on the downstroke. When you miss the downstroke the force is misapplied to the upstroke and the whole bouncing mess starts. (The cycling equivalent of the overstriding that occurs when you run as fast as possible down a hill.)

Use running as an analogy. Neuromuscular training is sprinting - not running in place moving your feet as fast as possible. Spinning the pedals as fast as possible against little or no resistance is the cycling equivalent of running in place with super quick steps.

Once you discard the false premise that pedaling smoothly at fast cadence is about skill and not the result of appropriately chosen cadence-gear-power combinations you can look at things from their proper biomechanical and physiological perspective. Saying the reason you can't pedal fast against light resistance is because you lack "skill" is like saying the reason you will eventually fall on your face when you take off sprinting down a steep hill is because you lack "skill".

matteobma
02-29-2012, 05:15 PM
Todd S amazing effective explanation / example ! ...the title must be changed in the "Scientific truth about IC cadence".


"Neuomuscular training is not about pedaling fast, it's about pedaling fast against maximal load (for that specific cadence or muscle shortening velocity)."


Sometime I propose this kind of work in my classes:
In very high intense peak of 15-25 seconds:
Increase load, mantaining cadence costant. (non applicable without skilled partecipants, ...the workload is always too low, and it doesn't reach the scope in a short interval time)
Increase cadence, mantaining load costant. (may be the most common easier way to execute)
Increase both cadence and load (lightning in a few second).


But sometime I ask myself: how many do it properly, ..and how many participants, in IC classes, has benefit to do it. (very big stress).

Ciao Matteo :)

Todd S
02-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Todd S amazing effective explanation / example ! ...the title must be changed in the "Scientific truth about IC cadence".


"Neuomuscular training is not about pedaling fast, it's about pedaling fast against maximal load (for that specific cadence or muscle shortening velocity)."


Sometime I propose this kind of work in my classes:
In very high intense peak of 15-25 seconds:
Increase load, mantaining cadence costant. (non applicable without skilled partecipants, ...the workload is always too low, and it doesn't reach the scope in a short interval time)
Increase cadence, mantaining load costant. (may be the most common easier way to execute)
Increase both cadence and load (lightning in a few second).


But sometime I ask myself: how many do it properly, ..and how many participants, in IC classes, has benefit to do it. (very big stress).

Ciao Matteo :)

Problem is, true sprint training has questionable value and safety in a spin class on bikes that don't freewheel.

Todd S
02-29-2012, 06:19 PM
Something else to consider if you're still convinced that smooth, high cadence pedaling is a "skill"...

Next time you try a spin up to high cadence on a fixed gear spinning bike, notice how you don't 'lose it' and start to bounce until you reach the point where you're no longer accelerating or gaining speed. Acceleration stops when you reach the point where the pedals are going so fast that you're no longer able to apply positive force on the downstroke. With light resistance, meaningful power at the pedals is still required to accelerate the flywheel. When speed tops out, it's because you're no longer able to apply meaningful power due to the speed of the pedals, and that's when you'll start to bounce. As long as you're still accelerating you pedal stroke will appear to be smooth.

Next time you see someone bouncing along in the saddle at 120 rpm, ask them to quickly accelerate and pedal as fast as they can. You will notice as they speed up that the bouncing stops. Bouncing will resume when their speed tops out.

Pro
02-29-2012, 06:49 PM
Something else to consider if you're still convinced that smooth, high cadence pedaling is a "skill"...

Next time you try a spin up to high cadence on a fixed gear spinning bike, notice how you don't 'lose it' and start to bounce until you reach the point where you're no longer accelerating or gaining speed. Acceleration stops when you reach the point where the pedals are going so fast that you're no longer able to apply positive force on the downstroke. With light resistance, meaningful power at the pedals is still required to accelerate the flywheel. When speed tops out, it's because you're no longer able to apply meaningful power due to the speed of the pedals, and that's when you'll start to bounce. As long as you're still accelerating you pedal stroke will appear to be smooth.

Next time you see someone bouncing along in the saddle at 120 rpm, ask them to quickly accelerate and pedal as fast as they can. You will notice as they speed up that the bouncing stops. Bouncing will resume when their speed tops out.

Todd... You rock buddy! I have always enjoyed everything you put out there. It's not often you find someone who understands both worlds of cycling (indoor & out), and how they do and don't work together. You close to LA? If so, your should come to IHRSA...

Todd S
02-29-2012, 07:13 PM
It's not often you find someone who understands both worlds of cycling (indoor & out), and how they do and don't work together.

Well, you start with someone who's into sports and cycling. Send him to engineering school so he lives stuff like statics, dynamics, and kinematics. Throw in a career in biotech so he's forced to understand science. Add a little obsessiveness and compulsiveness. And that's what you get.

Todd S
02-29-2012, 07:23 PM
You close to LA? If so, your should come to IHRSA...

I live in Ventura County and work in the San Fernando valley. I only go into LA when somebody makes me. ;)

Can you get me in for free? :)

matteobma
03-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Thanks Todd for the link to this study (you have linked it in another thread):

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/2000/07000/Cadence,_power,_and_muscle_activation_in_cycle.15. aspx


This graph (see attached) has provided me more scientific evidences about power and cadence relationship.

As the author has commented: "The cadence at which peak power is achieved (with each level of activation) is progressively higher with progressive increases in isometric force and maximal velocity."
In the attached picture, I have marked in red the range of cadences for each power curve and It's curious, that each peak power is achieved (@ each level of activation) in range around of 48-98 rpm. So talking of effectiveness, it make sense (even if it's a little impressive the curve 500 watts @ 98 rpm).

Moving away from the optimal cadence, there is greater O2 consumption, and lower power output.

I think that I will set them more free, about cadence, in my classes.:cool:

Ciao Matteo :)

Todd S
03-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Moving away from the optimal cadence, there is greater O2 consumption, and lower power output.

Actually, you could lower O2 consumption at cadences lower than those that minimize muscle activation for each corresponding power level. That's why optimizing cadence at a point where O2 consumption (or HR) is minimized can be misleading. That would have us pedaling slower than optimal. Our bodies don't tend to gravitate towards minimizing O2 consumption at sustainable intensities. Our bodies tend to prefer pedaling in a way that allows us to minimize fatigue.

And this is pretty much independent of fitness level. The slow preferred cadences of the casual recreational rider on the bike path at the beach are similar to those of the fit, "skilled pedaling" RAAM rider crossing the country with a slow, steady 170 watt power output. Put the RAAM rider in his local crit race or have an angry dog chase the recreational rider and both will naturally pedal faster with their higher power demands.

The lesson is that increasing power and increasing cadence should go hand-in-hand. Indoors, I think encouraging riders to "find a rhythm" first - then optimize resistance helps keep them from choosing unrealistic cadences.

sharimiranda
03-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Great discussion.

Here is the link to the article, in case anyone missed it:
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cadence.htm (http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cdence.htm?page=3)

rashana03
03-11-2012, 08:07 PM
Thanks for sharing this article.

Funhog
03-15-2012, 09:15 PM
The only high cadence training that makes any sense at all is at power levels approaching your all out max (true sprint training). Neuomusculer training is not about pedaling fast, it's about pedaling fast against maximal load (for that specific cadence or muscle shortening velocity).
Use running as an analogy. Neuromuscular training is sprinting - not running in place moving your feet as fast as possible. Spinning the pedals as fast as possible against little or no resistance is the cycling equivalent of running in place with super quick steps.

Once you discard the false premise that pedaling smoothly at fast cadence is about skill and not the result of appropriately chosen cadence-gear-power combinations you can look at things from their proper biomechanical and physiological perspective. Saying the reason you can't pedal fast against light resistance is because you lack "skill" is like saying the reason you will eventually fall on your face when you take off sprinting down a steep hill is because you lack "skill".

I have to disagree with these two statements. Explosive power (neuromusculer power) is only one aspect of neuromusculer training, it is not the entire story. The term neuromusculer encompasses much more than maximal efforts. It also includes the ability to contract a muscle quicker and the re-education of a muscle (or muscle group) in therapy. In its most basic sense, it's the communication between the nervous system and the muscles. Ask any kid playing a video game, as she progresses from level 1 to the top level - it is entirely possible to get faster in your responses. This ability is due to neuromusculer adaptations. There isn't any "power" involved in pressing the video game button - in fact in this case, power would interfere with the quick reaction times.

Most top cycling coaches include leg speed drills for their athletes - and these leg speed drills are most often referred to as neuromusculer training. As an example, Jeb Stewart, M.S., C.S.C.S. is a USA Cycling Elite and USA Triathlon Level 1 coach and is certified with ACSM, NSCA and NASM. He has a Master's Degree in Exercise Science. He is head coach of Endurofit (http://www.floridacyclingcoach.com/AboutUs/JebsBio.aspx). (Check out his bio on his website - pretty impressive coach/athlete. Someone I'd listen to).
This article on Active.com (http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Build_and_maintain_cycling_leg_speed_in_the_off-season.htm)by Jeb Stewart is Build and Maintain Leg Speed in the Off Season. Pay attention to his use of the term neuromusculer training and "motor programming". This paragraph stood out:

Some athletes, on the other hand, who have naturally high cadinces due to a highly trained or naturally gifted neuromusculer system, do not have as much trouble getting that leg speed back. Regardless, it pays to include some leg-speed work in your training to limit the damage and improve your mechanics and overall neuromusculer fitness.

Another well-known coach who use pedaling drills to improve skills and neuromusculer ability (i.e. leg speed):
Gale Bernhardt (http://ironman360.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/4-drills-to-improve-pedaling-technique-by-gale-bernhardt/)

Regarding the limited interpretation of the word neuromusculer, I recommend checking out a few of these studies about neuromusculer adaptations in cyclists:
This study (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjphysiol/50/3/50_381/_article)focused on the Metabolic and Neuromusculer Adaptations in Endurance Training in Professional Cyclists. (Translation: endurance = submaximal.)
This study (http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/1998/03000/Neuromuscular,_metabolic,_and_kinetic_adaptations. 16.aspx)is on Neuromusculer, metabolic and kinetic adaptations for skilled pedaling performance in cyclists.
Or this one, Neuromusculer adaptations (http://www.phoenixbarbell.com/PDF_Files/Strength-vs-Endurance.pdf)to concurrant strength and endurance training

This book i (http://books.google.com/books?id=fYiqixSbhEAC&pg=PT578&lpg=PT578&dq=definition+neuromuscular+training&source=bl&ots=4h8XejycUq&sig=lq0-7Xwcx4_WTl5BedRwt1j9sqg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rpxiT43iMeeeiQLf-Z3mCA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=definition neuromuscular training&f=false)s not on cycling, but rather on Exercise Physiology - this is the definition of neuromusculer training. Note that it is not limited to explosive power or maximal effort.

The design and implementation of a Neuromusculer Training Program (http://www.aktiv-rehab.no/ktml_files/docs/November2001-CC-Risberg.pdf) Following ACL Ligament Reconstruction (got this one from my brother who is a PA that does ACL reconstruction and refers his patients for neuromusculer re-education). I'm posting this because of this sentence: The objective of the neuromusculer training was to improve the ability to generate a fast and optimal muscle firing pattern, to increase dynamic joint stability and to relearn movement patterns and skills necessary during activities of daily living and sports activities.


Hope these help anyone who is tempted to think neuromusculer training is only explosive power and not the ability to pedal faster (and more efficiently), or that cadence work or pedaling drills don't have a potential positive impact on your pedaling skills.

Funhog
03-15-2012, 09:26 PM
Great discussion.

Here is the link to the article, in case anyone missed it:
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cadence.htm?page=3 (http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cadnce.htm?page=3)

Thanks so much Shari.
Just curious....what is the "Last edted by admin" on your post?

matteobma
03-16-2012, 04:12 AM
I think Todd is talking about the inertia of the flywheel in a fixed bike system.

When the cinetic energy of the flywheel is greater than the one that is delivering with legs, the difference is downloaded on the legs of those who ride.
Looking the scene from outside, the rider is bouncing on the saddle.
In this scenario, the "skill" does not change what it is happening. It may be that a more powerful rider can provide more power and the breakpoint will be shifted at higher rpm.

Another thing, as Jannifer has said, is to learn an activation schema (the kid playing a video game is the best example), when the new synapses are activated, other motor units are recruited.
If the pattern is recalled many times, the new schema acquired and "ready to use", this process involve "the skill".

The pedalling process involve both aspects, a lesser activation time, can be helpful for the entire system.

Ciao Matteo :)

Todd S
03-16-2012, 12:49 PM
Good points Jennifer and great discussion.

A couple of points to still consider when digging into this stuff....

1) Causal vs associative relationships. I think it's important when looking at a reference to be able do conclude in your mind how the study supports what you think it does. You should be able to show cause and effect and come up with a proposed theory or mechanism that could explain the causal relationship.
a) Lucia et al - I'm not sure what this says about skilled pedaling at high cadence, but they do concude that over time "possibly (2) an enhanced recruitment of motor units in active muscles, as suggested by rms-EMG data." I'm not sure where to go with that.
b) Taikishi et al - They were looking at cadence preferences of cyclists vs non cyclists. That's a pretty good one. They make an argument for circular pedaling. They conclude 'skill' (an associative relationship), but don't ask whether there are other cycling specific adaptations (related to say changes in the nature of cycling specific muscle fibers - the more commonly held belief with physiologists) that cause them to choose to pedal the way they do and often consume less O2. I'd guess if they did the exact same experiment with running (comparing say experienced runners with cyclists of similar physical characteristics) they'd see similar results. Would it be because the runners are more skilled or is there some other adaptation that comes with regular running that makes you a better runner? I don't know.
c) McCarthy et al - That uses the word neuromuscular, but it's about concurrent strength and endurance training so I'm not sure how it applies.
d) As for the text - they're just talking about how maximal strength gains when beginning weight training are due to neural factors, not hypertrophy. Not sure how that applies to anything we're talking about other than confirming that neuromuscular is in fact a word.
e) Risberg et al - That kind of leads into my second point as it just talks about movement patterns.

2) I always look at this stuff through the prism of the basics of training - specificity and overload. Simply training a movement pattern is worthless if it does not occur under real world conditions. Let's just say I could practice and practice spinning away at 140 rpm against light resistance to get real good at it. That's not a condition I would ever use in the real world of cycling (or indoor cycling). For the effort to be specific (to when I would pedal at 140 rpm), it has to be close to or on the 140 rpm point on the force-velocity curve, not well below it. To use your example, if you're a kid who's practiced enough to become a whiz with a tiny little joystick to prepare for flying a real helecopter with a real joystick, he's probably wasted his time. Neural adaptations, to be useful, have to come at real world speeds with real world forces (fiber recruitment).

Nice discussion.

sharimiranda
03-16-2012, 05:40 PM
Thanks so much Shari.
Just curious....what is the "Last edited by admin" on your post?

I inquired about that and was told: "It wasn't, I clicked the edit link by mistake and that notice is automatically added."

Today I tried to fix the link to the article because it's going to page 3 instead of page 1. Not sure why, but it's still doing that even with my edit.

admin
03-17-2012, 06:52 AM
I inquired about that and was told: "It wasn't, I clicked the edit link by mistake and that notice is automatically added."

Today I tried to fix the link to the article because it's going to page 3 instead of page 1. Not sure why, but it's still doing that even with my edit.
iPhone users will recognize the difficulty navigating this site without inadvertently clicking something. Nothing was changed.

renees
05-06-2012, 12:32 PM
some great advice and lines to use here. now we just need to get the majority of instructors to stay current with their education and training so that they themselves model appropriate cadence with no bounce so that those that do will stand as out of the norm and we can gradually get the IC to see that these high crazy classes and legs are not what real cycling is about as those are the classes that the crowds seem to flock to overwhelmingly. too bad but hopeful we are all doing our little part.

CatharinetheGreat
08-07-2012, 08:26 PM
Thanks for that, always controversial how fast should participants leg speed be in the clubs I have been in.

kayguidera
12-29-2012, 07:09 PM
wow i must say this has been an interesting thread! thanks for everyithing
kay

Terence Galloway
01-24-2013, 09:50 AM
great help

Megale
01-24-2013, 01:47 PM
"Ride hard, stay within yourself, don't forget to breath" best cue money can buy.

The spectrum:

1) Fastest cadences + very low resistance = Cardio vascular fatigue

2) Slowest cadences + very high resistance = Localized Muscular fatigue

My take:
Try to shoot for the middle with emphasis on visiting toward either end of the spectrum without succumbing to a missed training opportunity.

Mike

SpinningHappy
02-05-2013, 04:10 PM
Nice tips! Great cue! I'll have to give it a try!

AlvChen
03-04-2013, 10:50 PM
Not the most helpful post, but with all this talk about cadence and control, I had to share this video of Kevin Mansker, who at the time was trying to qualify for the London Olympics in track cycling (team sprint, match sprint, and I think keirin). I do not recommend this for the beginner cyclist...or rather even the intermediate cyclist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQnBiOqjh8

Vivienne
03-05-2013, 07:45 AM
Not the most helpful post, but with all this talk about cadence and control, I had to share this video of Kevin Mansker, who at the time was trying to qualify for the London Olympics in track cycling (team sprint, match sprint, and I think keirin). I do not recommend this for the beginner cyclist...or rather even the intermediate cyclist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQnBiOqjh8

Did he manage his goal??

If so, I'm going to suggest that it was in spite of this bat-$h!t crazy stuff. If not, he shouldda listened to us.

Vivienne

AlvChen
03-05-2013, 11:30 AM
In regards to the Olympics, unfortunately, there was only one spot available to represent the US in the match sprint and that went to teammate, Jimmy Watkins. They were close to making it in the team sprint, but at the world championships they had a technical foul during a rider exchange and were relegated. Heartbreaking stuff.

spinr
03-14-2013, 10:01 AM
If you're up over 110 RPMs [revolutions per minute] really you're not doing yourself any favors. You start bouncing on the seat, it's not getting you anywhere.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/josh-taylor-spinning-tips_n_2664720.html

mamba
04-03-2013, 10:02 PM
I have to say that our new FreeMotion bikes have solved a lot of the problem of crazy rpm riding. Why? The data for your ride is right in front of your face. Not only are the rpms shown, but the Watts that are generated. It is easy to show a class how an increase in cadence raises watts, but that an increase in resistance also raises watts produced.

I also give the brief explanation: The flywheel weighs about 35 pounds, so if you get that thing flying around too fast with low resistance, your knees are getting yanked around at 120+ times per minute. Ergo, you are no longer riding the bike, it is riding you. And what's the point of crazy legs if I can prove you aren't getting a good workout?

I had an "aha" moment in a master class a few weeks ago. As an outdoor cyclist, I spend some time in each indoor class coaching proper form for stroke, body position, etc. In this master class the instructor said that most mistakes people commonly make can be remedied by an increase in resistance. With the exception of "mashing" I believe that he is right. Form seems to correct itself when the proper amount of resistance is applied.

carrahleigh
09-11-2013, 10:50 AM
Great suggestion to have a class look at and experiment with wattage, I think I will do this to help educate, thanks!

carrahleigh
09-11-2013, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the info, very helpful for a new instructor here!

ALeeS
01-20-2014, 03:02 AM
I try to avoid anything in class that I wouldn't do outside on a ride but, it seems many of my class participants feel that if they are not bringing their cadence up to something like 120 or 130 RPM they aren't getting a proper workout. I talk about safety and I focus a lot of heart rate rather than cadence but I still face the same issue. Any suggestions?

Doug Hanson
05-02-2014, 01:33 PM
... I had an "aha" moment in a master class a few weeks ago. As an outdoor cyclist, I spend some time in each indoor class coaching proper form for stroke, body position, etc. In this master class the instructor said that most mistakes people commonly make can be remedied by an increase in resistance.

Monitoring cadence (keeping it at or below 110RPM) is safe. I love your comment about increasing resistance to remedy mistakes. I've used that in classes I teach when I see people bouncing in their seats... a couple gears up and the bounce usually goes away :)

Doug Hanson
05-02-2014, 01:39 PM
"Ride hard, stay within yourself, don't forget to breath" best cue money can buy.

The spectrum:

1) Fastest cadences + very low resistance = Cardio vascular fatigue

2) Slowest cadences + very high resistance = Localized Muscular fatigue

My take:
Try to shoot for the middle with emphasis on visiting toward either end of the spectrum without succumbing to a missed training opportunity.

Mike

Thanks Mike. Great advice. I find myself staying right in that middle ground often going toward one end then the other and back again... simple but effective.

Doug

Doug Hanson
05-02-2014, 01:59 PM
Great discussion.

Here is the link to the article, in case anyone missed it:
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cadence.htm (http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The-Truth-About-Indoor-Cycling-Cdence.htm?page=3)

It would appear the link has changed... here's the current URL:
http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/the-truth-about-indoor-cycling-cadence

Good information in there :)

Doug

Doug Hanson
05-02-2014, 02:12 PM
I agree also. I have several people that continually spin their legs at an inordinate rate. This is on "hill" sections of the class as well. I've never gotten off the bike to admonish them to slow down, but will tell the entire class the benefits of slower cadence with slightly more resistance. Those that choose to follow my lead will have the most success. The others I just hope don't become injured during my sessions.

I would also agree with not adjusting someone's resistance. I also try to help my classes understand the benefits of slower cadences with more resistance; however, I think it's important that the whole class also understand the risks involved in going too fast and/or having too little resistance for the RPM. Safety tips are normally appreciated and can change the course of riders that seem to be destined for injury. Not educating is close to not caring IMHO.

Doug