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liveon2wheels
08-16-2011, 10:08 AM
To the moderators, if this is too "self promotional", please just delete the post. However, even if it were not a Cycling Fusion product, I would want to know about this, and would consider it news. With over 400,000 apps in the App Store, one would have thought that an app to assist the Spinning® or Indoor Cycling instructor would have already been invented, but strangely enough it hadn't. But now, we can say "there IS an app for that". The website also has a sample video of Tom Scotto teaching with it, and lots of video tutorials: http://bit.ly/nSU3p2 (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=2WPfjien2nk&offerid=146261&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp% 2Fclass-builder%2Fid456067264%3Fmt%3D8%26uo%3D4%26partnerI d%3D30)

RaffCycles
08-16-2011, 02:11 PM
Gene was kind enough to allow me to help with the Beta testing. This applicaton may just change they way you teach as well as the way your students understand your cues if you have the opportunity to project this on a big screen. I've enjoyed using the application.

Gene, best of luck with your app. Can you program a telepathic communication in your next version? :)

Todd S
08-16-2011, 02:27 PM
What are the advantages of this app if you don't project images?

RaffCycles
08-16-2011, 05:21 PM
I find it combines my stopwatch, my playlist/cue sheets into one nice package. No more trying to squint as to the time left in a song or even in the class. I feel you can put more information on the screen than you can on a small cue card strapped to your handle bars. As I age, I find that anything that is lighted is much easier to read in a dimly lit room.

Besides, if you have a water resistant case, it doesn't get soggy when you sweat on your playlist.

Todd S
08-16-2011, 05:52 PM
Sounds great but I still do my music/playlists on CD using Mixmeister.

Might be a good tool if I ever get to the point where I'm doing my playlists on my iPhone or iPod or iPad.

RaffCycles
08-16-2011, 08:56 PM
That is simple if you use an iPod/iPhone. Just export as one song and add your cues to the only song you have. I've done that and it works well.

liveon2wheels
08-17-2011, 02:31 AM
No more trying to squint as to the time left in a song or even in the class. I feel you can put more information on the screen than you can on a small cue card strapped to your handle bars. As I age, I find that anything that is lighted is much easier to read in a dimly lit room.
Thanks Ralph, and I'm not sure if you got one of our last updates before we submitted to Apple, but in reference to the quote above, now if you double tap on the cue in the middle of the iPod, it expands to fill almost the entire screen, and then a single tap has it shrink back to normal size - to emphasize the ease of readability. Just an FYI :)

zoepup
08-17-2011, 04:11 PM
Dang! do you read my mind? I have been thinking about learning to write iOS apps just for this purpose.Do they plan on offering a trial version. $20 is a lot to pay for an app you may not like.

liveon2wheels
08-18-2011, 12:53 AM
Dang! do you read my mind? I have been thinking about learning to write iOS apps just for this purpose.Do they plan on offering a trial version. $20 is a lot to pay for an app you may not like. There is no trial, but the entire product, and I mean EVERYTHING, has been demonstrated through the Tutorials. Because we filed for patent protection, we were comfortable sharing the entire product, screen by screen and function by function through our tutorials. Right now there are 10 of them posted, and 2 more will be uploaded today. It is as close to a "try before you buy" that you can get. These tutorials should serve to both sell the product as well as teach folks how to use it. One can start off building a class in less than 5 minutes, and eventually spend an hour or two as they exploit every feature or function. I've not had anyone feel the value for the money was a mismatch so far. Remember, this is a app for a "vertical market" - ie - the potential buying public is so small, the "normal" price tag for an app just doesn't work. We've got over 14 months in design, development and testing into this app. Here's a link to the videos: http://www.cyclingfusion.com/classbuilder/#tutorials

hally
08-18-2011, 07:46 AM
Gino,

I am now addicted to Spotify for many reasons such as millions of songs at my fingertips along with sharing of playlists and wondering if the your App allows usage of Spotify songs?

Thanks,
Hally

Bozegal
08-18-2011, 10:30 PM
I'm very intrigued, just watched tutorial 7 and building a class in 4 minutes. I love the concept and the software looks solid. I'm not 100% sold yet though, the pain I encounter in creating a profile and music is mainly resolved in MixMeister for the music and Excel for the profile. The software would replace (and enhance!) the Excel part but I still need to build the music, and that for me takes longer than typing out the profile in excel. I can't live without being able to cut a song short or change the tempo or beat match. I'm going to watch the rest of the tutorials - which, by the way, is a fantastic way to sell and support your app. Very exciting stuff!

My favorite feature so far - cue's that pop-up right when you need them. Congrats on the first ever cycling app, very exciting!

liveon2wheels
08-20-2011, 12:44 AM
Regarding Spotify, I have recently reached out to the company about integrating their player - have not even heard back from them yet - but you and I already are thinking alike Hally. I'll certainly keep everyone posted via our website.

Regarding MixMeister - although I mix my music in SoundtrackPro, I can't see why mixing the music anywhere would impact Class Builder (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=2WPfjien2nk&offerid=146261&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp% 2Fclass-builder%2Fid456067264%3Fmt%3D8%26uo%3D4%26partnerI d%3D30) - ultimately you then put that completed mix in a class. If they are not individual tracks, then you simply have 1 song you select, constituting one very large "Segment" in Class Builder terms, and it will just contain many more cues than a typical segment has. You can still use every feature without limitation. Even the auto-generated profile will work since you can specify Heart Zone or Intensity via each cue.

amgoodrum
08-21-2011, 06:53 PM
I used the Class Builder app on my iPad to teach my very first class, which was a 25 minute demo class for the director of fitness (who also teaches the Y cycle certification) at the Y where I will be teaching. It really helped with timing and cuing, and the director was intrigued and excited! I think that this application will be amazingly helpful!

Willie
08-22-2011, 01:55 AM
Hi Gene
Are you working on a version for the Android?

liveon2wheels
08-22-2011, 05:03 AM
Hi Gene
Are you working on a version for the Android? Yes indeed we are. So far we have two of the four main menus and their related screens done, but we are just starting on the hardest one - that of running the actual live class. To be safe, I'm estimating January 2nd as when we probably will be releasing it, but software development is seldom predictable :). I'm curious though, what music device do you use to play music for class? I don't know anyone who uses an Droid for the music, but I am just wondering. Thanks

Willie
08-23-2011, 01:36 AM
Hi Gene
My phone is a Droid. While I don't use it for my rides - I could - it has the capability.

I use a Sony Walkman MP3 player for my rides. I use Rhapsody for the music. Rhapsody is an online music service. The cost is $10 per month. Music is "rented". As long as you pay the monthly fee you can use all of the music in their library (as complete as itunes). You can purchase music too. The pricing is similar to itunes (.99 - 1.29 per song). The positive with Rhapsody is I can listen to any song in their library in its entirety. If I don't like it - I don't use it. The negative with Rhapsody is their software. The layout of the software is OK but it has a a very irritating bug. When you want to jump ahead in a song by clicking on the bar that shows how much of the song has played - it causes Rhapsody to stop working. Windows 7 then tries to find a fix - it doesn't find it - and Rhapsody closes. It doesn't happen everytime - I would guess about 15% of the time - but often enough so that I am looking at Spotify and itunes as alternatives.

Your app sounds really interesting. I really like my Droid and if your app will work with my Droid (live class, music, etc) I will stick with Rhapsody until I have a chance to play with your app.

A side note:
I have been to the web page and tried to watch the video clips. They play OK but the right half of the video is covered with another layer of the page so I can only view the left side of the video. I may be able to send you a screen capture image. If you are interested PM me with your email address.

liveon2wheels
08-24-2011, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the info on the videos - I'll PM you with my email address - it's probably a browser thing, as the videos come direct from VIMEO which is pretty mainstream.

bigjack
08-24-2011, 08:38 AM
So I went to your website and watched the tutorials. Very interesting and looks pretty cool , however when I went to itunes to check it out it says I need a 4th Gen ipod and mine is 3rd Gen.. So this app is not for me unless I get a 4th Gen ipod. Is this correct? And if I did is there any way to do all this creating on a PC. I hate typing on the ipod ,it is to small but I push on. Maybe an ipad next year.

laboroflove
08-24-2011, 03:35 PM
This looks fabulous! bigjack has already asked two of my questions...whether a 3rd Gen can handle it and whether creation is possible on a PC (I have aging eyes :)).

However, I have what one of my college professors would call "an undergraduate question", meaning it's one which may cause you to snicker, politely, of course. Both studios in which I teach have computerized stereo systems and my iPod plugs in like an extra CD drive on the *other end of the room* from my bike. I can't even see my iPod while I'm on my bike. Can I find cable, like an old-fashioned extension cord to connect the iPod with the stereo jack, so that I can have the iPod on my bike (and, hopefully, use this app!)? I admit freely my techno-ignorance, so thanks for snickering quietly.

Willie
08-25-2011, 01:04 AM
Finding an extension cord for your ipod should not be a problem. I have a 20 foot extension that I purchased at Radio Shack. It works great but can present a trip hazard if you are running it accross the middle of the room. I don't remember the cost but it was under $20.

liveon2wheels
08-25-2011, 05:35 AM
So I went to your website and watched the tutorials. Very interesting and looks pretty cool , however when I went to itunes to check it out it says I need a 4th Gen ipod and mine is 3rd Gen.. So this app is not for me unless I get a 4th Gen ipod. Is this correct? And if I did is there any way to do all this creating on a PC. I hate typing on the ipod ,it is to small but I push on. Maybe an ipad next year.
Unfortunately, this is true. The 3rd generation iPods just prevent too many of our features from working, especially the ability to project the profile and main target parameters (cadence, Heart Zone, etc).

Regarding the typing - this is a mobile app, so no creation on the PC is possible, however, those of us who use it a lot are using a wireless keyboard. When I had my laptop stolen in Spain this year, all I had was my iPhone for 10 days - I was able to buy a small wireless keyboard, and it was like having a micro-computer with me - very cool. In general though, unless you are pretty wordy or plan to submit your classes to our upcoming "Class Builder™ Marketplace" for resale, I don't think you'll need the wireless keyboard. The cues are meant to be short reminders to yourself, not actual scripts. In any event, all good questions. I hope you'll give it a try whenever you upgrade your device.

laboroflove
08-25-2011, 09:23 AM
Thanks, Willie...I'll measure the distance tonight and head to Radio Shack this weekend! It will be fabulous to have the ability to control the volume from my bike, too.

Gene...I'll have to put a 4th Gen on my "wish list", along with world peace...trust me, I'm already telling my co-instructors about this tool!

liveon2wheels
08-26-2011, 05:13 AM
Thanks, it seems like we've been working in a cave for the last 18 months putting a lot of "stuff" together, and we are just now stepping outside... hoping the big bad world doesn't shoot us out of the sky as we spread our wings. I appreciate the support.

fdelos
08-30-2011, 11:49 AM
Please ! let me know when the Android app is out.. !

fdelos
08-30-2011, 11:51 AM
I upload iTunes playlist to my Droid 3 at the moment.

liveon2wheels
08-31-2011, 12:41 AM
We are far from ready to test in beta mode, but it occurred to me that it wouldn't be a bad time to start and recruit beta testers - and I need instructors who actually already use the Droid for their Indoor Cycling Classes. So fdelos, if you are interested in begin a beta tester, please PM me with your email address and I'll put you on a newly forming test group. Thanks for you interest!

maria12d
08-31-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm a little confused as to which equipment works with this app. You've referred to using your ipod, but it seems that the app is for iPad or iPhone. I have the classic ipod. Will that work?

NJSpiner
08-31-2011, 07:40 PM
WOW, I've been away from Pedal On for a few months except dropping in now and then to do a quick take. I got my Ipad2 at the end of July and have been frustrated with trying to find an app that works better than the iPod app on the iPad. Seems like should've been keeping a closer watch on here. Gene I have one question before I am 100% convinced to buy the app. Does it run in iPad mode (ie full screeen) or does it run in iPod/iPhone mode and only use half the screen. Those of us with old age eye problems need that extra large font to read and the half screen just doesn't do it. :) Thanks for any light you or anyone who has used it can shed for me here. :)

CycleGuy
09-01-2011, 12:48 AM
Steve,

I am using on my iPad2. Haven't gotten the memory on my iPhone to think about using it there. And with the older eyes I am now using I would not want to consider using it on the iPhone.

iPhone mode, so 1x or 2x. I use it 2x so that I can read it. Would be nice to have it run in iPad mode. Maybe a future enhancement?

I haven't used the app yet for a class. Still playing around with it a bit and building an couple of classes. I have used my iPad for classes from time to time with a mixing app that is unbearable to view on the iPhone. I use a case for my iPad that is meant for the back of a car head rest. This allows me to strap the iPad onto the towel holders seen on most of the bikes these days.

liveon2wheels
09-01-2011, 01:00 AM
I'm a little confused as to which equipment works with this app. You've referred to using your ipod, but it seems that the app is for iPad or iPhone. I have the classic ipod. Will that work? It is for the iPod TOUCH - it has to be a 4th generation iPod to take advantage of all the features of the app - especially the projection capability. So, it works on iPod (touch), iPad and iPhone

liveon2wheels
09-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Does it run in iPad mode (ie full screeen) or does it run in iPod/iPhone mode and only use half the screen. Those of us with old age eye problems need that extra large font to read and the half screen just doesn't do it. :) Thanks for any light you or anyone who has used it can shed for me here. :) Right now, it does just work on half the screen - it has not been optimized for the iPad yet. That being said, we have a meeting on Monday to discuss the order of our enhancements and next update (believe it or not, we already had a full list of enhancements for version 1.1 BEFORE we submitted it to Apple - it's the nature of the beast in software development). So, I will add the whole "do we do an iPad version 1.0 before we do the next iPod/iPhone version 1.1" a legit question we will wrestle with. Thanks for the nudge.

Willie
09-02-2011, 12:35 AM
Hi Gene
If you are looking for beta testers you can add me to the list. I am using the origional Motorola Droid but plan to buy the Motorola Bionic when it is released on September 8 or as soon after as I can get my hands on one.

liveon2wheels
09-02-2011, 03:27 AM
Thanks Willie! We still are quite a ways away from testing, but please PM me with your email address, and I'll add you to my list of potential beta testers. Thanks again.

cvcali
09-02-2011, 08:20 AM
I use Class builder (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=2WPfjien2nk&offerid=146261&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp% 2Fclass-builder%2Fid456067264%3Fmt%3D8%26uo%3D4%26partnerI d%3D30) on the iPad in 2x mode. Though not specially running in iPad mode I cannot tell the difference and to be sure the larger screen format makes reading easy. Building classes on iPad is a dream compared to iPod Touch. So transferring classes from device to device becomes a problem. I hope Gene and Mark are working that!

The only downside to iPad is where to put it. I carry extension cords that vary in length from 6 feet to 50 feet. so I can always get the iPad to the bike. It is at the bike the problem begins. It is difficult to secure to the bike. After all, if the iPad falls off the bike you've got almost $1K at risk. So I only use iPad when there is a surface near the instructor bike. Other wise I use iPod Touch 4G with my 'Tuneband case/elastic strap to secure to the bike and strain my eyes (or wear glasses) NOTE: I consider myself a Class Builder power user. The truth is that with experience I've learned to use very short all CAPS cues (usually the segment title alone is enough) and to follow the moving line across the heart zones profile I built from each cue. That is the true power of this app. One can lead a great class, reading not required.

jhawkspin
09-04-2011, 10:15 PM
I'd suggest a music stand. If the facility will allow it, you can have a pretty sturdy one kept there just waiting for you. They don't have much of a foot print. If not, you can find a very portable, light weight folding stand. You can pretty much place it close to handlebars. You can usually adjust the viewing angle. Our facility has one and I'm able to place my profile and stop watch on it during class. Planning to put an IPad there eventually:)

Conradcyclo
09-05-2011, 05:16 PM
Its a great idea - I still print out my class plans on a landscape A4 sheet and then laminate it. I then either keep it on the floor by my bike or tape it the bike - no one in my classes minds as they know I am using the timings (to the second) on the songs and then doing interval training from the specific times.
Works for me but would like to try an App - is an iPhone/iPad sweat resistant though????

liveon2wheels
09-06-2011, 02:56 AM
Its a great idea - I still print out my class plans on a landscape A4 sheet and then laminate it. I then either keep it on the floor by my bike or tape it the bike - no one in my classes minds as they know I am using the timings (to the second) on the songs and then doing interval training from the specific times.
Works for me but would like to try an App - is an iPhone/iPad sweat resistant though???? Class Builder™ also produces a pretty nice PDF print-out of the ride as well - you can see a video of this feature here: http://bit.ly/riovI8 I've gotten my iPhone wet plenty of times, but I do not recommend a steady diet of it. There are several holders that have nice, VERY moisture resistant covers: They range from $39 http://www.terratrike.com/shop/accessories/bikeconsole-iphone-bike-mount/prod_111.html (http://www.terratrike.com/shop/accessories/bikeconsole-iphone-bike-mount/prod_111.html) to $59 http://us.dahon.com/accessories/2010/biologic-bike-mount-iphone
(http://us.dahon.com/accessories/2010/biologic-bike-mount-iphone)

ahmitabha
09-11-2011, 01:03 AM
I am completely in love with this app! A thousand thank you's!

BGTreker
09-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Looking forward to putting the app to use. I got it today after reviewing all the tutorials. Hope to have it up and running for Monday's class!

SpinnerMom
10-11-2011, 07:10 PM
Just got a new iPod specifically so I can run this app! Still trying to figure it all out but loving it so far.

omgirlie
10-12-2011, 11:26 AM
I've been contemplating getting this app for the past month...maybe I should just the jump! I wish iTunes let you get like a little sample of apps, so frustrating sometimes when you want one but just aren't sure. It's one thing with .99 cents and another with 19.99! Sounds like you all love it though!

liveon2wheels
10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
I've been contemplating getting this app for the past month...maybe I should just the jump! I wish iTunes let you get like a little sample of apps, so frustrating sometimes when you want one but just aren't sure. It's one thing with .99 cents and another with 19.99! Sounds like you all love it though! Your apprehension is understandable. This is why we tried to cover every feature in the 12 short video tutorials we posted on the app web page. Did you happen to look at any of those yet. If you go through at least 4 or 5 of them, you should have a real good feel for it before you buy. These videos are not on iTunes, so you can't really get a good feel there. Here's a direct link: http://bit.ly/nSU3p2

wxkristin
10-13-2011, 07:55 PM
Looks like a really neat/useful app! I have an ipad and iphone and I am oh so tempted, but I've never paid $20 for an app before... if it were $10 I would snatch it up right away! (I understand indoor cycling instruction is a bit of a 'niche' market so you're not exactly selling at angry birds level to cover development costs, etc)

As I debate it... I see that you do have some plans for a v1.1, but how often do you expect to add updates in the future? Any other cool enhancements already in the pipeline? (e.g., addition of spotify playlists, ipad specific development)?

liveon2wheels
10-14-2011, 05:20 AM
A precise schedule of enhancements is never really possible, but in general more are in order in the early stages of a products life - as is the case here - making 3 or more updates a year quite likely. Regarding the cool enhancements in the works, we already have too many valid and useful enhancement for them all to make the next release (Whew! There are more things we can do with this than we first imagined!). Anyway, we've created a "Wish List" page where users can comment on what they like and want. Right now we have the top contenders for the next release on there, and will try to add more each week - so feel free to put specific ideas in here: http://on.fb.me/rgPEZt

Thanks for your interest. Oh yeah, and you nailed it right on the head in your first paragraph - no angry birds market size here - it's a niche within a niche. We can't even sell this to riding/spinning enthusiasts - only instructors - and it was well over a year in development :)

marcolucisano
10-16-2011, 07:12 AM
Gene, upon upgrading to iOS5 I have issues on transition from preclass music to the class to postclass music. It skips the class altogether. The only workaround that I found is to start the class with the "bike"button from edit-mode. I have this problem both on my iPad and on my iPhone.
Any suggestions on how to handle this?
Thanks for a great app! /Marco

liveon2wheels
10-17-2011, 01:36 AM
Hey Marco - I'm impressed that you figured out the WORK-AROUND before we published it. Yes, for now, please do not use the "pre-class music" feature to start your ride - just go to the Edit mode, enter the first segment and first cue, and tap on the stationary bike icon in the bottom center of the screen.

Something else that works for now, is to take the Pre-Class playlist off of synching (uncheck it) when you synch your iPod with iTunes. When you do that, there is NO Pre-Class music, and it simply begins class as soon as you select the class from Class Builder. I just tested that all the way through an hour long class, with various pauses and song skipping via the music break out box, and nothing "fell over" as my developer likes to say. It all kept working as planned. So that is another way to get around the problem for now.

Unfortunately, we never know what will "break" when they come out with a new OS - and often nothing breaks with the small updates, but iOS 5 was no trivial update as you know, and so we will be working hard at getting a new version up ASAP. My guess is that many other apps are in the same boat though, and Apple's review team will have their hands full, making the approval process likely drawn out.

Hang in there, and thanks for the report.

SpinnerMom
11-17-2011, 01:49 PM
I absolutely love this app BUT I have yet to figure out how to use my non-iTunes music playlists. For instance I have some songs from Rhapsody but don't know how to select them from Class Builder. Is that even possible, or does your music have to come from iTunes since it's an iTunes app? Maybe that is a dumb question... ?

liveon2wheels
11-18-2011, 06:43 AM
No question is a dumb question, but unfortunately the answer is yes, the music must come from iTunes. That being said, can you not import the music you got from rhapsody into iTunes? We hope to integrate with Spotify in the future.

hally
11-18-2011, 07:11 AM
No question is a dumb question, but unfortunately the answer is yes, the music must come from iTunes. That being said, can you not import the music you got from rhapsody into iTunes? We hope to integrate with Spotify in the future.

Please let us know at PO when you integrate with Spotify, I am waiting :) Thanks

Paul S.
11-18-2011, 12:13 PM
No question is a dumb question, but unfortunately the answer is yes, the music must come from iTunes....
Just to clarify, the music has to be in the iTunes program on your computer, but it could have been bought anywhere, not just the iTunes Store, right?

liveon2wheels
11-19-2011, 04:02 AM
yes, that is absolutely correct - if you put it INTO iTunes, we can get it out

Bozegal
11-20-2011, 10:16 AM
I bought the app, mainly because of the ability to project to the class.

If I add songs one at a time via iTunes it works great. However, most of the time I use MixMeister. I add it as one song but then I can't "fast forward" the track to minute 22 (for example) where I know I want to add a specific queue or change the segment title. Can you share any tips/tricks for using the application with a pre-made 45 min music mix?

One idea I had was to export each track separately, however MixMeister 7 only supports that for CD and WAV format, not MP3. Then iTunes will convert WAV to MP3 in iTunes (lots of extra files on my PC to clean up, WAV files are huge).

liveon2wheels
11-21-2011, 01:53 AM
I assume you would not be fast forwarding the song in class, and that you would do that just to refine exactly where you want to deliver a cue, say for the start of an interval or to time something to a specific beat of the music - if that is true, the only work around right now is to play the song in iTunes in the background and pause it at the point in question, and then enter you cue in Class Builder (http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=2WPfjien2nk&offerid=146261&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp% 2Fclass-builder%2Fid456067264%3Fmt%3D8%26uo%3D4%26partnerI d%3D30)™. Hence the solution is not baked into the app unfortunately. However, that will change in the next release. Being an active instructor who currently still teaches 8 classes per week, I face the same problems our customers do - like this one. So my developer and I have come up with a solution that we are currently testing. We are now playing with a version of the next upgrade that has integrated music controls right into the cue and segment building screens - allowing you to precisely control the song while you are either entering your cue text or setting other cueing parameters.

My previous business fell under the overall heading of "Workflow Software" (in the healthcare industry) - and this new feature is right up my alley in that regard. I estimate it will knock off 25 to 40 percent of my class building time once we refine and release it. But... the devil is always in the details, and we still have a few more irons in the fire before it can be released. In the meantime - the iTunes work-around will get you there.

Bozegal
11-21-2011, 03:13 PM
Thanks for the reply, I will keep doing what I'm doing until that functionality is included. I'm sure I will have more questions, is this an appropriate place to ask them or should I be using a different contact method?

Bozegal
11-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Ok - I am a techie loser. My ipod is a 2nd generation model, not 4th. So the fancy hdmi cable I bought is not supported by my ipod. Short of paying $170 for a 4ht generation ipod (there are some decent sales on ipods this weekend) do you know if ipod 2nd gen supports video output at all? The application works fine on this model, I just can't use the projection function.

lilrubie
12-04-2011, 12:26 AM
Might try it when I go back to teaching a bunch of classes, but since I am only teaching 1/week right now it's a bit expensive, and a lot of time just for one class!

satb2
12-17-2011, 07:36 PM
Looks awesome! Recently lost my MP3 player but received an IPAD2 as a gift. Not squinting in the dark would be an advantage. Oh, to easily read cue notes in dim light!

Question, I only went through a few of the tutorials...is there a feature that would allow one to incorporate a metronome into the class profile?

Jackpine
12-18-2011, 10:09 AM
Great idea satb2. I've been looking for a method to combine a metronome for coaching cadence changes at different points in profiles. My current idea is to mix an the output of an iPod running Tempo app with my iPad output running Class Builder into the two input channels of our rec center sound system. It would be great, and more functional if I could just program it into the specific cueing stages in class builder. Maybe Gene will add this to his list of possible upgrades.

liveon2wheels
12-19-2011, 01:40 AM
Great idea satb2. I've been looking for a method to combine a metronome for coaching cadence changes at different points in profiles. My current idea is to mix an the output of an iPod running Tempo app with my iPad output running Class Builder into the two input channels of our rec center sound system. It would be great, and more functional if I could just program it into the specific cueing stages in class builder. Maybe Gene will add this to his list of possible upgrades. I must confess, it pains me to put in a feature that is only necessary because club owners and managers are too short sighted to put real training tools on their bikes. Cadence and HR are as essential as pedals and handlebars in my opinion, but of course - I readily confess to being a data junkie :-)

I need a little more feedback - I assume you want the class to be able to HEAR the metronome, and that you will need to modify it for each song/BPM right? Assuming I understand these main requirements, we can put it in our "bucket list". Thanks for the feedback.

Todd S
12-19-2011, 03:22 AM
Cadence and HR are as essential as pedals and handlebars in my opinion, .....

????

I don't understand why. Neither is either (a) a measure of fitness or (b) makes a real life bike go faster.

Carole
12-19-2011, 07:08 AM
Todd, I don't mean to take away from the subject but I am confused by your statement. Isn't HR recovery time a measure of your fitness level? The faster it recovers from an explosive effort the more fit you are?

Vivienne
12-19-2011, 07:24 AM
Todd, I don't mean to take away from the subject but I am confused by your statement. Isn't HR recovery time a measure of your fitness level? The faster it recovers from an explosive effort the more fit you are?

Not necessarily.

Heart rate response to exercise and imposed demand is very dependant on all sorts of things don't always measure superior fitness.

I'm currently attempting to get the notion of HR and cardiovascular physiology across to some of the members in my class as I'm hoping/ intending to get back to using HR monitors a bit more come the New Year. The best way I can think of without boring folk with "too much talking" is to offer up examples of when HR response is no indicator of actual work effort....

There's such a concept of "anticipatory effect".....HR rises just for thinking about exercise.

There's exaggerated response just because of a lack of conditioning........a couch potato would see a relatively high HR very quickly just for getting up off the couch and an equally fast drop because they weren't working very hard in the first place. The very opposite of fitness.

Sneaking up behind someone and yelling BOO! in their ear....

Etc., etc., etc

Vivienne

Vivienne
12-19-2011, 07:36 AM
????

I don't understand why. Neither is either (a) a measure of fitness or (b) makes a real life bike go faster.


Not sure about anyone else posting in this context but the majority of my class members don't ride a real bike. Truth be told, though, with a bit of understanding of HR response to cadence and resistance as they pertain to fitness levels and everthing else would likely be able to make one go a bit faster than without......if they were compelled to ride indoors 100% over the Winter, that is.

Vivienne

cvcali
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Vivienne,

I couldn't agree with you more. And getting your riders back into heart rate monitor use is great to hear. It gives them portable feed back that is not attached to the bike. Once you teach them the nuances of heart rate response they will soon be able to filter the real data out of monitor indications. Still, in the class room (cycle studio) environs at the end of class, a measure of recovery heart rate could be useful over the long term.

cvcali
12-19-2011, 10:26 AM
I'm with you Gene... Cadence counter on the bike + Heart rate monitor on wrist = great training tools for the instructor and rider. Adding a metronome like sound to your playlist sounds redundant to me. Great job on CB looking forward to v1.2.

Todd S
12-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Todd, I don't mean to take away from the subject but I am confused by your statement. Isn't HR recovery time a measure of your fitness level? The faster it recovers from an explosive effort the more fit you are?

... generally yes, but how is that really of any value in class?

Isn't a better real time fitness indicator sustainable watts? I always say that just because HR can be measured precisely doesn't mean it can tell you anything precise.

+ what Viv said so nicely.

Jackpine
12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
Chuck, I agree it would be great if my coaching location had bikes with power, cadance, and heart rate like the CycleOps Pt300s, but that's not the case and not likely to change for several more years. We are a registered Spinning site, and use StarTrac NXTs. The bike mounted heart rate/cadence meters availabe for these have generally been too unreliable to advise purchase. Maddogg has yet to announce a shipping date for their Spinner Bike with power. So rather then sit and wait, I think it is better to work with the tools that are available to us now. Student seen eager to learn.

Todd S
12-20-2011, 01:05 AM
IMHO that's a perfect opportunity to go old school. Cadence measurement without power measurement is kind of meaningless. HR is a highly unreliable intensity indicator. Fine tuning one's sense of RPE is one of the most valuable skills your riders can develop - even if you have power meters. When you boil any endurance sport down to its most basic level you have rhythm and RPE. Everything else is a crutch. Power indication tells you how you're doing.

matteobma
12-20-2011, 04:43 AM
I would add that sometimes (a little bit often) things like tech tools, software, etc... are seen as things that you can not do without it.

The wellness and fitness industry marketing push their tools or technology like "indispensable" for motivating purpose.
Of course, there is a continuos run to reach whatever will be the next tool, software, tecnology.

On other hand, I know biker and runner that doesn't do their workout, if they forget at home the heart monitor, or the music player or cadence sensor or whatelse.
Someone seem to me a christmas tree, with on board instruments for everything.

Sometime theese supporting tools can be helpful, but when we use (or see) them like a motivating tools (for recreational fitness purpose) ... can be that something of basic, it need to be refocused.:p

Do not misunderstand me, I like and use technology support, but sometime I ask myself if they really needed for recreational fitness purpose, if they are additional value or they remove value from what we are really doing.


Ciao Matteo :)

ps: ...sorry for a little bit OT

InnerDrive
12-20-2011, 06:27 AM
IMHO that's a perfect opportunity to go old school. Cadence measurement without power measurement is kind of meaningless. HR is a highly unreliable intensity indicator. Fine tuning one's sense of RPE is one of the most valuable skills your riders can develop - even if you have power meters. When you boil any endurance sport down to its most basic level you have rhythm and RPE. Everything else is a crutch. Power indication tells you how you're doing.

This discussion has gotten a little off-topic, but it's interesting so I'll continue to derail it... While I wouldn't necessarily call HR monitors and cadence sensors essential, I do think they can be useful training tools, especially for newer students. Cadence sensors can help students begin to tune into what an effective riding cadence feels like (i.e., neither mashing nor spinning to quickly with little or no resistance), and an HR monitor can be useful to help them tune into how hard they are really working, and just as importantly, IMO, whether or not they are really recovering during recovery. I can say that when I started triathlon training many years ago, essentially coming off the couch, these tools were very useful to me. After training with a heart rate monitor for a period of time, I was able to tune in more reliably to my RPE, and now I know, for example, what a threshold effort "feels" like - but the HR monitor helped me learn that. Likewise, I no longer feel the need for a cadence sensor on my "real" bikes - I can go by feel. But many newer riders haven't developed that sense of feel, and tools like cadence sensors and heart rates can be useful for helping them develop that.

Todd S
12-20-2011, 11:30 AM
I think what started us off on this tangent was the opinion that HR and cadence were as essential as pedals and handlebars. I'm just trying to emphasize the importance of the best subjective tool for judging exercise intensity anyone could ever imagine - our brain. Could you imagine anyone developing an electronic device that incorporates everything that we "feel" when we exercise and how fast that device would fly off the shelves? And the only way to really calibrate this optimum subjective tool is through performance - speed or power. Everything else is a red herring.

Todd S
12-20-2011, 12:47 PM
To say it in another way...

When you were first on the bike starting your triathlon training wasn't the idea to make your bike go the fastest while making it feel the 'easiest'. In the end, HR and cadence were what they were as long as you could make your bike go the fastest with the least physical discomfort.

And indoors, it's my feeling that the benefits of music with respect to helping the rider establish a rhythm are too often overlooked. All sport is predicated on rhythm. When MJ or Kobe says they're letting "the game come to them" what they are talking about is rhythm. On a long climb you establish a rhythm and it feels right. Ever try riding a spin bike for an hour without music? Most would rather get a root canal. Indoors you lack the external cues you get riding outdoors and without your tunes to help you out it's very hard to establish rhythm or flow. Everyone's rhythm is different. Having someone else constrain your effort by prescribing cadence or HR or some other invented parameter can easily become a distraction preventing you from establishing the rhythm or flow you need to ride effectively.

InnerDrive
12-20-2011, 03:09 PM
To say it in another way...

When you were first on the bike starting your triathlon training wasn't the idea to make your bike go the fastest while making it feel the 'easiest'. In the end, HR and cadence were what they were as long as you could make your bike go the fastest with the least physical discomfort.

Well, to a point, yes - but it took some time and experience to figure out what combination(s) of cadence and gearing got me there. I also adopted pretty structured interval training pretty early on, and at the time, a heart rate monitor was useful for helping me train more effectively (I train primarily with power now, but still keep an eye on heart rate). I think the same can be true for indoor cycling students. They might think they are working harder than they are, or they might be working harder than they realize, or they might just be working at the same effort for an entire class, when they could get more out of it if they varied intensity.


And indoors, it's my feeling that the benefits of music with respect to helping the rider establish a rhythm are too often overlooked. All sport is predicated on rhythm. When MJ or Kobe says they're letting "the game come to them" what they are talking about is rhythm. On a long climb you establish a rhythm and it feels right. Ever try riding a spin bike for an hour without music? Most would rather get a root canal. Indoors you lack the external cues you get riding outdoors and without your tunes to help you out it's very hard to establish rhythm or flow. Everyone's rhythm is different. Having someone else constrain your effort by prescribing cadence or HR or some other invented parameter can easily become a distraction preventing you from establishing the rhythm or flow you need to ride effectively.

I mostly agree, and I definitely do try to use music to help generally set the tempo for the type of ride I'm doing (i.e., faster tempo for "flats", slower tempo for "climbs", etc.) But regardless, there are still some riders who don't seem to get it, and are nearly always mashing or nearly always spinning with little resistance. I'm sure that for them, this feels like a natural rhythm, or at least it's the rhythm they've gotten used to on an indoor bike. IMO, these riders would be better served by learning what a range of cadence and resistance combinations feels like. A cadence sensor can help that, by allowing the instructor to say something along the lines of "If you can't maintain a cadence of XX (XX will vary depending on what you're doing - maybe 80 for a flat road, or 60 for a climb, or whatever) rpms here, then drop a little resistance until you can get those RPMs up" or "add a little resistance until your legs start to slow down and you feel like you're on a climb, we're looking for a cadence of about 60-70 rpms here." So, I'm not really talking about constraining natural rhythm, but helping riders find a more effective rhythm and explore different combinations of cadence and resistance...

Again, I'm not saying these tools are essential, but I do think they can be used effectively to help teach in the indoor environment. In the end, we can all only use whatever tools we have and are most comfortable with. As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and there's more than one way to teach a class ;)

Vivienne
12-20-2011, 05:03 PM
.... But regardless, there are still some riders who don't seem to get it, and are nearly always mashing or nearly always spinning with little resistance. I'm sure that for them, this feels like a natural rhythm, or at least it's the rhythm they've gotten used to on an indoor bike. IMO, these riders would be better served by learning what a range of cadence and resistance combinations feels like. A cadence sensor can help that, by allowing the instructor to say something along the lines of "If you can't maintain a cadence of XX (XX will vary depending on what you're doing - maybe 80 for a flat road, or 60 for a climb, or whatever) rpms here, then drop a little resistance until you can get those RPMs up" or "add a little resistance until your legs start to slow down and you feel like you're on a climb, we're looking for a cadence of about 60-70 rpms here." So, I'm not really talking about constraining natural rhythm, but helping riders find a more effective rhythm and explore different combinations of cadence and resistance...


What I found is that the cadence sensor, when coupled with everything you've mentioned here, helps you the instructor more than the "non compliant" class member. It allows you to settle back and accept that folk are doing what they want to do and doing it from choice rather than slipping into an easier "default" from lack of experience or knowledge or whatnot.

It's somewhat inevitable on a bike that doesn't fall over.....even if you have "feedback" to give a Heads-Up! about what might happen on a real bike on a real road.

Vivienne

InnerDrive
12-31-2011, 06:17 PM
Back to questions about Class Builder ;)

I just purchased the app and have been playing around with it a bit. I haven't had a chance to try projecting it yet....

I have a couple of questions/suggestions:

One feature that would be nice, if it's not there (like I said, I haven't been able to project it yet), is to have an interval or segment countdown timer projected on the screen. I have been using Trainer Road (http://www.trainerroad.com/) to do some projected rides in some of my classes. People seem to like it. One of the things they like most is being able to see that countdown timer so they know exactly how long they need to sustain a given effort, how much longer the recovery will be, etc. I really like the Trainer Road program, but the problem is that I'm limited to the rides they have available, and at least for now, there's no way to edit them or create your own workouts. I like the Class Builder lets me do that.

I'm also wondering if there could be a way to create segments within longer songs.... I often mix together several songs, and many times my entire 45 min. to 1 hour ride is one long mixmeister mix. I know I can go through and create cues throughout, but it might be nice if it were possible to define ride segments within longer mixes.

I can tell it's gonna take a while until I'm at the point of being able to create rides quickly... but I like the idea of being able to project the profile of the exact ride I want to do, so I'll stick with and see if I get more proficient. (That countdown timer on the projected ride would be really nice, though!)

liveon2wheels
01-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Back to questions about Class Builder ;)

I just purchased the app and have been playing around with it a bit. I haven't had a chance to try projecting it yet....

One feature that would be nice, if it's not there (like I said, I haven't been able to project it yet), is to have an interval or segment countdown timer projected on the screen. (That countdown timer on the projected ride would be really nice, though!)
We have something similar to a countdown in that there is a vertical line on the background grid that corresponds to each segment - so you can tell where you are relatively speaking when in a segment. When the moving vertical line (current place) indicator is half way through a segment you can tell because of those background vertical lines.

However, the exact time would be better and more accurate for sure. I think we could put it right next to the title of the Segment - which is now displayed at the top of the profile.

By the way, I just created a NING site to provide a way for users to suggest features and "vote" so to speak on other feature requests. There is much to do in setting the site up completely, but I think I have it to the point where people can begin logging their suggestions. If you try it out and let me know what you think: http://indoorcyclingtechnology.ning.com/

InnerDrive
01-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Gene -

If there is a way to do it, I think you could probably use the same "countdown timer" that the instructor sees between cues to produce a countdown timer on the projected display. If there was a way to select that as one of the options to appear on the header of the projected ride, that would be great!

ETA: What *I* would love to see is the ability to count down between different work efforts within a segment. So, for example, if you have a 4 minute song (aka "segment") that includes some 15-20 second sprints, the ability to see a count down of each of those sprint efforts, as well as a count down of the recovery time in between, would be helpful. So I think being able to count down based on the cue timer might be more useful, at least in terms of how I see myself using it....

Bozegal
01-08-2012, 03:48 PM
I think I'm in love with version 1.2. Just downloaded the upgrade and playing with it now. So far the playback feature when adding cues is what I needed to incorporate my MixMeister playlist as one song. A few questions/suggestions -

--I thought I saw a link where folks could offer suggestions or ask questions but I can't find it now...does anyone know where it is? I'll ramble here in the meantime...

--I watched the new videos from the cyclingfusion website, but I didn't see the "auto profile" toggle anywhere. Where do I set this?

--One minor "bug" on the "Last Ride" date and "Ride Count" -- if you are building your cues (etc.) and you click on the bike icon to "preview" the song/cue, the ride count increments and the last ride date updates. Since this is just a preview, and I preview multiple times while building, it skews the data.

--I would love to be able to toggle my instructor display. Some boxes I use all the time and some not so much.

--I may not always teach to HR (for reasons I don't want to debate here) - any chance you could toggle the projector output between either HR or Terrain?

Thanks again for update 1.2! If you figure out a way to increase BPM by 5 beats on a song and blend one song into the other via "fade" I may never need to use MixMeister again, haha!

Jackpine
01-09-2012, 07:12 AM
....By the way, I just created a NING site to provide a way for users to suggest features and "vote" so to speak on other feature requests. There is much to do in setting the site up completely, but I think I have it to the point where people can begin logging their suggestions. If you try it out and let me know what you think: http://indoorcyclingtechnology.ning.com/

Here's the link to the Class Builder suggestion site.

liveon2wheels
01-10-2012, 07:21 AM
I think I'm in love with version 1.2. Just downloaded the upgrade and playing with it now. So far the playback feature when adding cues is what I needed to incorporate my MixMeister playlist as one song. A few questions/suggestions -

--I thought I saw a link where folks could offer suggestions or ask questions but I can't find it now...does anyone know where it is? I'll ramble here in the meantime... RESPONSE: the new (and FINAL) place to report bugs and suggest enhancements is located here: http://getsatisfaction/cyclingfusion

--I watched the new videos from the cyclingfusion website, but I didn't see the "auto profile" toggle anywhere. Where do I set this? RESPONSE: My "tutorial software" for the iPhone (jailbroke app is the only thing out there) stopped working half way through my updated tutorials - but this feature is located by tapping on the CLASS summary at the top of any class while in the edit mode

--One minor "bug" on the "Last Ride" date and "Ride Count" -- if you are building your cues (etc.) and you click on the bike icon to "preview" the song/cue, the ride count increments and the last ride date updates. Since this is just a preview, and I preview multiple times while building, it skews the data. RESPONSE: Thanks for this one!! We'll fix it in the next version

--I would love to be able to toggle my instructor display. Some boxes I use all the time and some not so much. RESPONSE: There are a number of related features on the new feedback site - please check out what we have there, and then if nothing seems to fit the bill, post one that you would like to see and we will see what the community thinks of it.

--I may not always teach to HR (for reasons I don't want to debate here) - any chance you could toggle the projector output between either HR or Terrain? RESPONSE: I like the idea - again, why not float it on the Get Satisfaction site and let's see what people think.

Thanks again for update 1.2! If you figure out a way to increase BPM by 5 beats on a song and blend one song into the other via "fade" I may never need to use MixMeister again, haha! RESPONSE: If it isn't crazy hard, we might just do that :-)

liveon2wheels
01-10-2012, 07:23 AM
Here's the link to the Class Builder suggestion site. Hey Folks - this was a brain fart of sorts - we are not using this NING site for this purpose, and we have moved everything to http://getsatisfaction.com/cyclingfusion This thread will be much more productive it picked up at that site. Thanks for all the great feedback and support since we launched!!!

Traci King Hoeting
07-18-2012, 12:15 PM
Thanks for posting...great app for new folks!

liveon2wheels
07-19-2012, 03:07 PM
Thanks Traci! FYI - we are feverishly working on the next version that will synch with the CLOUD - so if you have more than 1 iDevice all will have the same set of classes! It's taking us longer than we would have liked, but doesn't everything !?!

ifrederik
02-23-2013, 04:17 PM
What other alternatives are there to Class builder?

ifrederik
02-23-2013, 04:36 PM
Hey man

Are you making something for Mac users? Would like to be able to send my Mixmeister remix directly to the app or at least use the app on my Mac?

Best

iFrederik