PDA

View Full Version : The forum and conflicts of interest



SpinBob
05-15-2011, 01:14 PM
When the forum was sold to someone with a financial interest in a IDC-related business, one of the concerns was that forum decisions would be made based on whether there was a financial impact on ICI/Pro. The new owner said that wouldn't be the case.

It has come to my attention that the new owner of the forum has asked Kala to resign her moderatorship. The reason is because Kala's has become involved with a new premium website geared to IDC instructors. The new site does not compete with Pedal-On, it competes with the owner's premiun site ICI/Pro. This seems to go against the new owner's statements that nothing would change.

Kala has been a great forum member, which is why I chose her to be a moderator. And she has lived up to all my expectations as what a moderator should be. Moderators are volunteers, they facilitate the use here by members and patrol the site for spammers. As long as Kala can keep here involvement in the forum and any other activities separate, she should be allowed to stay as a moderator.

Please show Kala your support, tell the new owner of the forum that being involved with a business that competes with his has nothing to do with forum business.

sweeneybiker
05-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Yes, Bob, I totally agree with you. Kala has been an amazing asset to PO and does not deserve the treatment she is receiving. I am so very disappointed to hear that this is happening.

SloSpin
05-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Based on the information provided, this sucks.
Do we know the whole story? Should the site owner have an opportunity to give his side?

This reminds we a bit of what happened a few years back and how this forum lost a great voice from Portland, OR.

Todd S
05-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Somebody pass the popcorn....

I've got the feeling this will be fun to watch.

Pink
05-15-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm just going to be blunt and say my piece. I have no problem coming on to Pedal-On to discuss music, profiles, movements, problem riders, gym issues, general & not so general exercise questions, trends, TV, movies, ipods, computers, nutrition, bikes, shoes & my cat. I may mention that I'm MDA certified or I've attended WSSC, ICIPro or a Mania conference without overtly advertising anything. I think there is certainly wiggle room with how these things are discussed. I don't think most of us find it hard to maneuver. For me, not much has changed here, as far as how I post and relate to fellow forum members. I personally haven't noticed much change in how the forum operates since the ownership has changed. If it does change and I now longer find value, I will find somewhere else to allot my cyberhours. I hope everyone overly involved will step back, take a breath and remember we are talking about an internet forum, for crying out loud.

Kala, I am sorry for whatever went down. I hope you will continue to be an active member here, even as you pursue your new exciting endeavor. Your vibrant personality has certainly brightened Pedal-on and I, for one, would miss you terribly if you left.

Jackpine
05-15-2011, 02:01 PM
Unfortunate test of wills and motivations here. Independence, but not so much... I think we all feared this might be the result of the PO buyout, just didn't see it coming so quickly.

Full disclosure, I just joined Jennifer Sage's new ICA site last night (Indoor Cycling Association dot com) and I hope it's a great success. And Kala's involvement is sure to be valuable and appreciated by us all. But it shouldn't preclude her from participating as a moderator in an independent forum should it? And how about my membership at ICA, does that preclude me from posting here?

Oh no, another dilemma. I followed Jennifer Sage from PO to ICI/Pro, and thus, I'm also a member at ICI/Pro. Does this mean I need to choose between ICA and ICI/Pro or can I have memberships at both??? Mmmm.... Maybe I'll be forced to choose just as Kala was...

Todd S
05-15-2011, 02:12 PM
Remember that these are bikes that, no matter how hard you pedal, go nowhere.

admin
05-15-2011, 02:14 PM
When the forum was sold to someone with a financial interest in a IDC-related business, one of the concerns was that forum decisions would be made based on whether there was a financial impact on ICI/Pro. The new owner said that wouldn't be the case.

It has come to my attention that the new owner of the forum has asked Kala to resign her moderatorship. The reason is because Kala's has become involved with a new premium website geared to IDC instructors. The new site does not compete with Pedal-On, it competes with the owner's premiun site ICI/Pro. This seems to go against the new owner's statements that nothing would change.

Kala has been a great forum member, which is why I chose her to be a moderator. And she has lived up to all my expectations as what a moderator should be. Moderators are volunteers, they facilitate the use here by members and patrol the site for spammers. As long as Kala can keep here involvement in the forum and any other activities separate, she should be allowed to stay as a moderator.

Please show Kala your support, tell the new owner of the forum that being involved with a business that competes with his has nothing to do with forum business.

Thanks for giving me a thread to communicate this Bob.
If Pedal-On is to remain independent there simply can be no real or perceived conflict of interest on the part of the moderators. None.
It didn't matter who Kala went to work for; ICA, ICI/PRO, Spinning, Cycling Fusion, it doesn't matter.

Moderators can not be employed by a commercial entity that would profit from having a Pedal-On moderator on the payroll and I'm very disappointed that you don't see the clear conflict here. I haven't installed a hand picked moderator here for that exact reason.

I don't oversee the moderators and I don't give them directions. I trust them to do the right thing. But when a start getting PMs expressing the same concerns as I raised it became obvious that this was a problem that I needed to address.

Bob in fairness it wasn't me who did something new, this was Kala's choice as was her decision to post my private message to her on her FaceBook page. I haven't changed anything and my limited experience working with you tells me you would have had similar concerns.
My intent is to keep Pedal-On independent and the perception of the Mod-Squad as a fair, unbiased and free of any conflicts of interest.

Todd S
05-15-2011, 02:20 PM
Moderators can not be employed by a commercial entity that would profit from having a Pedal-On moderator on the payroll and I'm very disappointed that you don't see the clear conflict here.

No offense to the moderators, but I can't see how 'Pedal-On moderator' can be seen as a resume enhancer.

Don't you all just clean up spam?

admin
05-15-2011, 02:22 PM
Based on the information provided, this sucks.
Do we know the whole story? Should the site owner have an opportunity to give his side?

This reminds we a bit of what happened a few years back and how this forum lost a great voice from Portland, OR.

Thanks - I have responded above.

One other thing - this morning I removed a post from a friend /company that I promote elsewhere. Why, because a moderator asked me what I though about it. Seeing it as a commercial advertisement, that didn't belong here, I told the poster that it needed to be removed. I have no favorites here:)

Yes Todd the moderators clean up Spam, but first they have to decided what is Spam and what isn't.

SpinBob
05-15-2011, 03:06 PM
Thanks for giving me a thread to communicate this Bob.
If Pedal-On is to remain independent there simply can be no real or perceived conflict of interest on the part of the moderators. None.
It didn't matter who Kala went to work for; ICA, ICI/PRO, Spinning, Cycling Fusion, it doesn't matter.

Moderators can not be employed by a commercial entity that would profit from having a Pedal-On moderator on the payroll and I'm very disappointed that you don't see the clear conflict here. I haven't installed a hand picked moderator here for that exact reason.

I don't oversee the moderators and I don't give them directions. I trust them to do the right thing. But when a start getting PMs expressing the same concerns as I raised it became obvious that this was a problem that I needed to address.

Bob in fairness it wasn't me who did something new, this was Kala's choice. I haven't changed anything and my limited experience working with you tells me you would have had similar concerns.
My intent is to keep Pedal-On independent and the perception of the Mod-Squad as a fair, unbiased and free of any conflicts of interest.

John you said the site wouldn't change with your ownership. There were no limitations put on moderator by the previous owner. Did you spell out this new rule, or any new rules, to the moderators when you bought the site or did it become a rule when Kala went to work with ICA?

Can you explain to me how in the world a moderator or their employer would benefit? Frankly, I think you don't understand the role of moderator or this really wouldn't be an issue.

amybatt
05-15-2011, 03:27 PM
Sorry Bob, I can't say I'm with you on this. As I posted on another thread (Kala's mainstream music thread which has now been deleted):

Here's how I see it:
1) Kala is appointed Maven of Mainstream music for ICA. This is communicated sometime overnight last night or yesterday.
2) One of Kala's first posts today after said appointment is soliciting our picks for mainstream music choices.
Coincidence? It doesn't feel right to me...

I immediately objected on her thread and asked that we be assured that this solicitation is not to drum up content for a site/blog/offering that someone is making money off of (whether personally she is or not, ICA is most likely). I do not post on this forum with any intention of helping someone else make a buck. I post here to share ideas, opinions and profiles in a free forum with like-minded instructors.

It has nothing to do with Kala herself or how good or not a mod she has been. I'm not singling Kala out. In fact, last year I brought the same thing up to Jennifer Sage offline. I would expect the same thing from any one of us who is posting or blogging online for pay. You just can't "borrow" content from people without their permission and make money off it.

I actually know people who felt the same way as I did last year about Jennifer doing this, yet they are singing a different tune today... :confused:

admin
05-15-2011, 03:37 PM
John you said the site wouldn't change with your ownership. There were no limitations put on moderator by the previous owner. Did you spell out this new rule, or any new rules, to the moderators when you bought the site or did it become a rule when Kala went to work with ICA?

Can you explain to me how in the world a moderator or their employer would benefit? Frankly, I think you don't understand the role of moderator or this really wouldn't be an issue.
Bob I never said that the site wouldn't change. I've already made a number of changes; 5 post rule, fixed the calendar and now testing options for a Power forum. We have a big upgrade planned for this summer that will bring in a number of exciting features that will enhance the experience of everyone who's a member.
I've consulted with all the active moderators so I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what they do and they have been helpful in letting me know what needs to be changed or improved.

Was this a rule I added when I took over Pedal-On? No, It never occurred to me that I would have had this issue today. My expectations are that people will be forthright when something changes that could be perceived as a conflict. I never intended this to be public and it could have been resolved much differently if it had not been.

RaffCycles
05-15-2011, 03:39 PM
If Pedal-On is to remain independent there simply can be no real or perceived conflict of interest on the part of the moderators. None.

Then should this same principle apply to the administrator?

admin
05-15-2011, 03:44 PM
Then should this same principle apply to the administrator?
No - because I have you and ~3,700 other members to hold me accountable.

LAWOMAN
05-15-2011, 04:08 PM
I never really thought about any of this when I responded to Kala's post. I really hate all this conflict and controversy. Why can't we all just get along?

RaffCycles
05-15-2011, 04:50 PM
No - because I have you and ~3,700 other members to hold me accountable.

As does Kala.

billpierce
05-15-2011, 04:54 PM
Sorry Bob, I can't say I'm with you on this. As I posted on another thread (Kala's mainstream music thread which has now been deleted):

Here's how I see it:
1) Kala is appointed Maven of Mainstream music for ICA. This is communicated sometime overnight last night or yesterday.
2) One of Kala's first posts today after said appointment is soliciting our picks for mainstream music choices.
Coincidence? It doesn't feel right to me...

I immediately objected on her thread and asked that we be assured that this solicitation is not to drum up content for a site/blog/offering that someone is making money off of (whether personally she is or not, ICA is most likely). I do not post on this forum with any intention of helping someone else make a buck. I post here to share ideas, opinions and profiles in a free forum with like-minded instructors.

It has nothing to do with Kala herself or how good or not a mod she has been. I'm not singling Kala out. In fact, last year I brought the same thing up to Jennifer Sage offline. I would expect the same thing from any one of us who is posting or blogging online for pay. You just can't "borrow" content from people without their permission and make money off it.

I actually know people who felt the same way as I did last year about Jennifer doing this, yet they are singing a different tune today... :confused:
I agree. I don't think that Kala exercised good judgement by soliciting mainstream music suggestions on this forum as soon as she was given that responsibility on ICA.com. Although she did that as a member, not as a Moderator, in doing so she acted inappropriately. John couldn't rescind her membership, since he agreed to keep the forum open. But as owner, he has the privilege of appointing Moderators whom he trusts to be neutral. Clearly, she violated that trust with her mainstream music post. So, he exercised his option to remove her as Moderator.
Although I was very concerned about the neutrality of this forum when it was acquired by ICI/Pro, so far John has kept his word and not interfered with the editorial content to promote any product or agenda. I am not a member of ICI/Pro or ICA.com. My comments simply reflect the position of someone who is a Master of Baiting and certified in insanity.

Jackpine
05-15-2011, 05:53 PM
You just can't "borrow" content from people without their permission and make money off it.

The value of this site is the content that is provided by the members for free. The site was sold, with a "good will" profit I assume, based on that content. So, in essence, the previous owner "borrowed" the content from people without their "permission" and made money off it. The new owner, I would assume, also intends to make a profit from running this site, unless this is some sort of charity. In fact, it wouldn't be too surprising if somewhere in some fine print everything posted here actually becomes the property of Peddle On, preventing someone else from mirroring the site somewhere else.

owl_girl
05-15-2011, 05:54 PM
No - because I have you and ~3,700 other members to hold me accountable.

As one of those 3,700ish members, how is your response in the thread "best podcasts for cyclists" (or something like that) not considered a conflict of interest?

I love, Love, LOVE this site!!!! It has made me a high-caliber instructor. I enjoy reading about fun things to do in class, great class participants (and not so great), physiology, and music. The members of this site are talented, knowledgable, and friendly.

I am not a member of ICI/PRO or ICA or IDEA or anything else. I, simply, cannot afford to pay membership to all of these worthwhile organizations with the piddly pay I receive as an Spinning instructor. (I DO pay to keep my Spinning and Personal Training certifications up to date.)

I hope this site remains an "independent voice for the indoor cycling community."

15inchbrick
05-15-2011, 06:26 PM
Kala - you will be missed.

Good day sir! :cool:

SpinBob
05-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Bob I never said that the site wouldn't change. I've already made a number of changes; 5 post rule, fixed the calendar and now testing options for a Power forum. We have a big upgrade planned for this summer that will bring in a number of exciting features that will enhance the experience of everyone who's a member.
I've consulted with all the active moderators so I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what they do and they have been helpful in letting me know what needs to be changed or improved.

Was this a rule I added when I took over Pedal-On? No, It never occurred to me that I would have had this issue today. My expectations are that people will be forthright when something changes that could be perceived as a conflict. I never intended this to be public and it could have been resolved much differently if it had not been.It should be public because this is a public forum and not a business. If this is a business where decisions are made behind closed doors, then it isn't a public forum.

The expectation that moderators are neutral is obsurd, they are allowed to have opinions, and to express them on the forum, and they are allowed to have a life outside of the forum.

Amy is right and I agree with her, if Kala started a thread with the intention of mining it for use outside the forum, then that is wrong. However, John and Jennifer were both guilty of doing that for ICI/Pro before John owned the forum. However, if John can keep his worlds separate, Kala should be allowed the same courtesy.

PedalFaster
05-15-2011, 07:58 PM
It should be public because this is a public forum and not a business. If this is a business where decisions are made behind closed doors, then it isn't a public forum.

The expectation that moderators are neutral is obsurd, they are allowed to have opinions, and to express them on the forum, and they are allowed to have a life outside of the forum
.

OH....MY...GAWD...fer shizzle?

Carole
05-15-2011, 08:00 PM
John,
I know you have not asked for advise but I do feel some is needed. If you go back to Business 101, new owners and administrators should spend some time before making changes to a successful product. When the new sheriff comes into town, the town folk are naturally apprehensive. He must first earn their trust; otherwise, he has lost most of the current members and has to start anew and recruit people who are of the same view point. Either way, time is the key factor. The other important note is most of the time, NO response is the BEST response. Kala may have made an error in judgment but did that warrant such a knee jerk reaction? Is your reaction worth the fall out? This is and has been a very successful forum and I hope that does not change. It will depend on you and your ability to allow nature to take its course. Take time, sit back and relax for a while.

Todd S
05-15-2011, 08:00 PM
Amy is right and I agree with her, if Kala started a thread with the intention of mining it for use outside the forum, then that is wrong. However, John and Jennifer were both guilty of doing that for ICI/Pro before John owned the forum. However, if John can keep his worlds separate, Kala should be allowed the same courtesy.

Where do you draw the line? Just about any serious discussion here can and usually does find its way into a blog post. Agreed, Kala's thread was kind of blatant, but how do you differentiate discussions from mining?

Todd S
05-15-2011, 08:04 PM
John,
I know you have not asked for advise but I do feel some is needed. If you go back to Business 101, new owners and administrators should spend some time before making changes to a successful product. When the new sheriff comes into town, the town folk are naturally apprehensive. He must first earn their trust; otherwise, he has lost most of the current members and has to start anew and recruit people who are of the same view point. Either way, time is the key factor. The other important note is most of the time, NO response is the BEST response. Kala may have made an error in judgment but did that warrant such a knee jerk reaction? Is your reaction worth the fall out? This is and has been a very successful forum and I hope that does not change. It will depend on you and your ability to allow nature to take its course. Take time, sit back and relax for a while.

Last time there was distrust of ownership here, many bailed and went over to Billy's forum (which is essentially dormant right now). But if you want an example of a stand up, hands off owner, Billy's your guy IMHO.

Jackpine
05-15-2011, 08:33 PM
if Kala started a thread with the intention of mining it for use outside the forum, then that is wrong.

You know, come to think of it, I mine the profiles and the music suggestions on this forum to make myself a better instructor, which in the long run, improves my marketability, increases my class size, increases my opportunity for more classes, and my potential raises in the future. Now, its not expressly for this purpose, but that is a potential, and possibly inevitable end result of being a successful instructor.

I see threads posted here about "How do I increase my class size?" Aren't those also rather blatant attempts at generating ideas to improve "the business" of an independent entrepreneur ICI. Is the difference the independence, because I also see these type of posts from club owners.

I guess I don't really have an issue with someone developing educational materials based on the wants and needs we express here on PO, but maybe its more of a black and white issue for some then it s for me. I'm just not sure it's realistic to state that is wrong for someone to start a thread with the intent of "mining" the collective wisdom of the PO community, be it an independent operator or someone more directly attached to a business. Heck, I want my clubs Spinning IC program to be successful and will work to that end goal, but does that mean my motives are impure?

SpinBob
05-15-2011, 08:48 PM
I think you misunderstand the issue which is taking forum content with the intention of reselling it to other IDC instructor on a premium site. Forum content is free content and not meant to be resold. We are talking about profit in the literal sense.

SpinBob
05-15-2011, 08:53 PM
Where do you draw the line? Just about any serious discussion here can and usually does find its way into a blog post. Agreed, Kala's thread was kind of blatant, but how do you differentiate discussions from mining?True Todd, it is hard to keep a good dissussuion down, but I think you draw the line at how the content is reused. There is a difference between sharing and selling. Forum content should be freely shared, emphasis on free. When folks start mining the forum for content to sell, that is where the line should be.

SpinBob
05-15-2011, 08:54 PM
Last time there was distrust of ownership here, many bailed and went over to Billy's forum (which is essentially dormant right now). But if you want an example of a stand up, hands off owner, Billy's your guy IMHO.Until he blew a gasket on Josh and the Spinning program...

Todd S
05-15-2011, 09:20 PM
Until he blew a gasket on Josh and the Spinning program...

I must have missed that. Not surprising as he was always loyal to Johnny.

We've come a long way since Joelle Mancuso started the Spinning forum back in '97. That seems like a lifetime ago.

Jackpine
05-15-2011, 09:41 PM
SpinBob, I better understand the distinction you are making about the mining. Although it does seem odd that someone would pay for content somewhere "over there" that is being given away for free "over here." I guess if proper credit was being given to the original sources, and it was being organized and added to in a "value added" sort of way, then it might be akin to what bloggers, journalists, and authors do. Anyway, I'll respect your opinion on this and watch and learn. I just hate to see this loss to PO.

zoepup
05-15-2011, 09:47 PM
WOW. I take some personal time away this weekend and come back to this. I will not pretend to know all that is going on and missed the post by Kala.

If it was soliciting info for a pay site, then it should not be here. We all make mistakes. I am sad to see it progress to this.

In the end, whether it is PO, ICI, ICA or whatever, the more constructive talk out there about indoor cycling, the better off we all are.

Z

RaffCycles
05-15-2011, 10:31 PM
I'm guilty!!! Ban my id and IP address forever!!!! I've posted questions here to help me design WSSC Sessions that can help members. So I stole your ideas for free. I have used quotes, music, and profiles from this site in my own class and got paid to use them. I guess I'm not independent and my membership to this forum can be considered a conflict of interest.

sweeneybiker
05-15-2011, 11:45 PM
I'm guilty!!! Ban my id and IP address forever!!!! I've posted questions here to help me design WSSC Sessions that can help members. So I stole your ideas for free. I have used quotes, music, and profiles from this site in my own class and got paid to use them. I guess I'm not independent and my membership to this forum can be considered a conflict of interest.
+1, Ralph.
I also think it's important to note, as soon as Kala was informed that some people took offense to the post, she deleted it. Immediately. I don't believe it was ever her intention to step over anyone's imaginary line. This is sounding more and more like a good old fashioned lynching. And this is KALA we're talking about. Seriously, people.

SpinBob
05-16-2011, 03:34 AM
I must have missed that. Not surprising as he was always loyal to Johnny.

We've come a long way since Joelle Mancuso started the Spinning forum back in '97. That seems like a lifetime ago.
It was when MDA started their forum-like site for WSSC a few years ago and their marketing guy Fred joined IC to post about the new site. It was wrong, but instead of just taking the post down, Billy went a little nuts...

SpinBob
05-16-2011, 03:41 AM
SpinBob, I better understand the distinction you are making about the mining. Although it does seem odd that someone would pay for content somewhere "over there" that is being given away for free "over here." I guess if proper credit was being given to the original sources, and it was being organized and added to in a "value added" sort of way, then it might be akin to what bloggers, journalists, and authors do. Anyway, I'll respect your opinion on this and watch and learn. I just hate to see this loss to PO.I agree with you, why would anyone pay a premium site for what they can get here for free? Makes no sense to me. Most of the blogging and news sites are free, at least in terms of content, so I have less issues there.

Don't get me wrong, I support Kala. She may have made a mistake, but folks associated with John's premium site were making the same "mistake" before he owned the forum and he didn't seem to care then. He is protecting his business interest from competition at the expense of the forum.

SpinBob
05-16-2011, 03:49 AM
I'm guilty!!! Ban my id and IP address forever!!!! I've posted questions here to help me design WSSC Sessions that can help members. So I stole your ideas for free. I have used quotes, music, and profiles from this site in my own class and got paid to use them. I guess I'm not independent and my membership to this forum can be considered a conflict of interest.
Ralph, let's not confuse the issue. Your use of the forum's content in all those cases is perfectly legitimate, as far as I am concerned, then again, I don't own the forum. However, posting to the forum to create content to resell on your own website would be wrong, as it puts money in your pocket <b>directly</b> from something created here.

amybatt
05-16-2011, 07:42 AM
I'm guilty!!! Ban my id and IP address forever!!!! I've posted questions here to help me design WSSC Sessions that can help members. So I stole your ideas for free. I have used quotes, music, and profiles from this site in my own class and got paid to use them. I guess I'm not independent and my membership to this forum can be considered a conflict of interest.

Come on, Ralph, don't get carried away. My issue (and I speak only for myself) is when Kala and Jennifer solicit content here to then turn around and offer it back up to "premium" members on ICIPro or ICA. In this case, Kala's timing was more than little bit coincidental and her wording was EXACTLY what she was just announced as being a subject matter expert on. Taking content offered up in the spirit of free sharing of ideas to then specifically make a buck off it smells bad. That said, if I saw one of your blogs on Spinning.com mimicked something I read here first, I'd hold your feet to the fire too. :D

When I joined PO many moons ago, the terms of use/user agreement said nothing about my contributions here being used for anything else and that I give up rights to it by posting them. Conversely, ICA's terms of use says exactly that. So buyer beware...

RaffCycles
05-16-2011, 08:58 AM
Come on, Ralph, don't get carried away. My issue (and I speak only for myself) is when Kala and Jennifer solicit content here to then turn around and offer it back up to "premium" members on ICIPro or ICA. In this case, Kala's timing was more than little bit coincidental and her wording was EXACTLY what she was just announced as being a subject matter expert on. Taking content offered up in the spirit of free sharing of ideas to then specifically make a buck off it smells bad. That said, if I saw one of your blogs on Spinning.com mimicked something I read here first, I'd hold your feet to the fire too. :D

When I joined PO many moons ago, the terms of use/user agreement said nothing about my contributions here being used for anything else and that I give up rights to it by posting them. Conversely, ICA's terms of use says exactly that. So buyer beware...


Amy,

I don't feel that I'm getting carried away. I bring up a valid point. Can you tell me how I not doing the same thing when I solicit ideas for WSSC and then develop a session surrounding the responses I get to my thread? I got paid and only those at WSSC could benefit from them.

I've used the knowledge gained here to taylor my presentations and blog articles. Below are a couple of those that I have started with the intent to not only help myslef, but to use as a information for my WSSC sessions and blog articles I write for community.spinning.com.

http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=10533
http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=9954
http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=7632

And where is the user agreement? Can anyone point me in the right direction. I'd be curious to see what I agreed to when this forum was started. I certainly will be amused at the modified agreement that I'm certain will come out about this.

veranda
05-16-2011, 09:05 AM
We are members of this forum because there's something in it for us, being profiles, music, becoming better instructors, using knowledge and wealth of other people that make us look smart or good at what we do. I am also aware of many threads that have started with a "for profit" agenda in mind but it was OK because nobody called on them. At the same time I really learned a lot and benefited from those threads thus not longer needed to joining the pay sites.

So the fact is that we all benefit from this forum, maybe some more than others. How do you gauge how much a member can/should benefit from this forum?

SpinBob
05-16-2011, 09:28 AM
Amy,

I don't feel that I'm getting carried away. I bring up a valid point. Can you tell me how I not doing the same thing when I solicit ideas for WSSC and then develop a session surrounding the responses I get to my thread? I got paid and only those at WSSC could benefit from them.

I've used the knowledge gained here to taylor my presentations and blog articles. Below are a couple of those that I have started with the intent to not only help myslef, but to use as a information for my WSSC sessions and blog articles I write for community.spinning.com.

http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=10533
http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=9954
http://www.pedal-on.com/showthread.php?t=7632

And where is the user agreement? Can anyone point me in the right direction. I'd be curious to see what I agreed to when this forum was started. I certainly will be amused at the modified agreement that I'm certain will come out about this.Ralph,
I admire your scruples, but frankly I don't think you've done anything different than anyone who has asked for song suggestions for a themed class or solicited help on a profile. WSSC is like a big fitness center. No offense, but your session isn't the reason that folks go. I don't think there is one aspect, overall, that attracts people, not even Josh's ride, again no offense to Josh. The attraction is three days of sessions and camaraderie.

If soliciting help/suggestions from the community with songs or on a profile, for normal instructor use, ever violates the terms of usage, then the forum is dead.

RaffCycles
05-16-2011, 09:35 AM
If soliciting help/suggestions from the community with songs or on a profile, for normal instructor use, ever violates the terms of usage, then the forum is dead.

As would my music library.

Funhog
05-16-2011, 09:49 AM
Holy cow! I had no idea this would come to this.


I'm guilty!!! Ban my id and IP address forever!!!! I've posted questions here to help me design WSSC Sessions that can help members. So I stole your ideas for free. I have used quotes, music, and profiles from this site in my own class and got paid to use them. I guess I'm not independent and my membership to this forum can be considered a conflict of interest.

That is what makes you the brilliant, empathetic, knowledgeable Master that you are. And that's what Master Instructors should do to be able to provide information and sessions that REALLY meet the needs of instructors. Researching for a Spinning workshop is no different than doing it for another means of educating instructors.

14 years I've been on this and the preceding forums. It is because of the questions I asked here and the education I saw was lacking and the advice I gave and how it was responded to, that virtually every one of my CED I wrote for Spinning and my WSSC or other conference workshops were conceived, or how my ebooks or articles have been compiled. Contraindications and Keep it Real and Anatomy of a Pedal Stroke and Pedal Stroke Drills and Effective Intervals and the Cadence and Resistance workshop to name a few - every one of them "mined" (if one insists on that derogatory term), from the information I learned here that instructors needed the most or were lacking the most.

The intent? To educate more, a whole LOT more instructors, than those who go to a forum. This is such an incredibly passionate group, so who better to ask about what instructors need the most? Look at the "views" on each thread. Maybe a thread has 400 views - many of them are the same person coming again and again, so maybe 50-100 different people saw that thread. If it's a subject that's going to positively impact instructors around the world, potentially thousands, or tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of them, why not find a way to have that impact on them too? But you've gotta find out what they need....

EuroD
05-16-2011, 12:08 PM
OK, playing a little devil's advocate here.

None of the information that is posted on here, ICI/Pro or ICA is proprietary. There are no brand new, never before seen profiles, they all come from the same thing - seated or standing, faster or slower - that's all you can do folks. Unless you choose to copyright everything that you post, then don't post because someone will use it. There are no brand new never heard ORIGINAL music mixes. Original meaning you created it yourself, you cannot get that piece of music from anyone, anywhere other than the creator her or himself. If it is never before heard ORIGINAL creation then you'd better protect it.

Asking for input which is clear is for ICA (now), was poor judgment. If it had to be taken down by a moderator or had to be asked to take it down then to me it is clear what the intention was. If it was removed before moderator input, then the error of the way was seen and corrected.

Information regarding education here is in the greater part pretty superficial not detailed enough to truly give someone a deep and full understanding. To get a deep and full understanding one has to pay for education. If you choose to subscribe to ICI/Pro or ICA, then you EXPECT to get something far more detailed than anything you'd read here. If not, then the owners are doing their customer base a disservice and will soon be out of business. Education comes from a need to know, and the only way one can determine the need is to research, this is done from many sources.

Megale
05-16-2011, 01:30 PM
Ralph,
As long as you put back more than you drink!!!;)

Mike

Dillman
05-16-2011, 03:38 PM
Kala was an amzing asset-she will be greatly missed!

bike4fun
05-16-2011, 04:28 PM
am i not following something?

she was asked to resign as a moderator, not banned from the forum...right?

i really don't see what the big deal is.

billpierce
05-16-2011, 04:37 PM
am i not following something?

she was asked to resign as a moderator, not banned from the forum...right?

i really don't see what the big deal is.
Kala seemed to take her demotion from her volunteer job of deleting spammers hard and decided to leave the forum. She deleted all of the threads that she started as a parting gift. So, anyone looking for a pumpkin seed recipe next Halloween will be S.O.L.
On the good news front, her departure freed up so many emoticons that were previously taken.:cool::eek::rolleyes::confused:;):rolleyes:: D:D:p:cool::rolleyes::confused::p:(:D:rolleyes::p: p:(:cool:

rick316
05-16-2011, 04:41 PM
am i not following something?

she was asked to resign as a moderator, not banned from the forum...right?

i really don't see what the big deal is.

Finally,someone seeing it for what it really was.

SpinBob
05-16-2011, 05:32 PM
am i not following something?

she was asked to resign as a moderator, not banned from the forum...right?

i really don't see what the big deal is.The big deal that there is a double standard, the owner of the forum is allowed to be associated with a commercial IDC enterprise, but a moderator isn't because there is a perception that it might affect the site's "independence."

admin
05-17-2011, 08:28 AM
am i not following something?

she was asked to resign as a moderator, not banned from the forum...right?

i really don't see what the big deal is.
You are correct.

admin
05-17-2011, 09:26 AM
The big deal that there is a double standard, the owner of the forum is allowed to be associated with a commercial IDC enterprise, but a moderator isn't because there is a perception that it might affect the site's "independence."
Bob this was an issue of trust, nothing more.

As the admin of Pedal-On, I have to rely on the Moderators to act in the best interest of the Forum. To do this I have to trust that each Moderator is free from any real or perceived conflict of interest.