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xor999spin
05-07-2011, 10:49 PM
Hi There,

Just went through training RPM 50 in hopes to take my assessment in a few weeks. This is a bit new to me and still trying to figure out the "counting" thing. Can anybody explain to me in "easy" format how to figure out the seconds when the count would say for the secon 1 1/2 x 8 or 8x8 I would like to be able to find a way where I can just look at that and realize oh that's this many seconds. Loving the RPM, this way of counting is just new to me. When I put my own music together for a free-style class, I just listen and have never specifically used the 2x8, 4x8 etc. Hope I make myself clear. ;) Thanks for your input and help.

Jane

rick316
05-08-2011, 03:38 AM
This is what I love about IDC - I have been teaching Spinning for nearly 7 years and everything in this post is in a completely foreign language to me!!!:confused::D

I'm going to learn from the responses to come :)

hally
05-08-2011, 08:33 AM
OMG I thought it was just me! Just put the ipod in the dock and start pedaling no need to reinvent the wheel.

Serious what is this RPM all about?

rick316
05-08-2011, 08:35 AM
OMG I thought it was just me! Just put the ipod in the dock and start pedaling no need to reinvent the wheel.

Serious what is this RPM all about?

It's a highly successful IDC programme. While I would be lost with the regimentation of each track,along with the pre-written script (although that may have changed,I don't know) I can appreciate it is a popular choice for alot of folks to teach and ride with.

Lisa
05-08-2011, 08:58 AM
Hi Jane,

If you go to the Les Mills website, there is a section called community. If you look there you can see what other RPM instructors have written about. It is presented as a forum and you can search by topic. It is also a good place to get ideas about cueing, preparing for the dvd assessment, and choreography notes. I hope this helps. Good luck!

SloSpin
05-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Jane,
These are counts of the beat, not seconds. It may take some time to become comfortable hearing the betas, but most get it.
Yes, it is a bit different than when one teaches free style.
As a former LMI assessor let me share this, listen to the song a few times on it's own. Then watch the DVD of that song and look for the cues for changing positions, count in your head with the beat. Then put it all together with the choreography.

Best of luck! As for your filming when you get there, have fun, make contact with the class, and be yourself.

SloSpin
05-08-2011, 11:59 AM
This is what I love about IDC - I have been teaching Spinning for nearly 7 years and everything in this post is in a completely foreign language to me!!!:confused::D

I'm going to learn from the responses to come :)

That was so very not to the question nor helpful in any way.
What shocks most is that you are a moderator? Hope the new owners of this site do some spring cleaning.

admin
05-08-2011, 12:42 PM
This is what I love about IDC - I have been teaching Spinning for nearly 7 years and everything in this post is in a completely foreign language to me!!!:confused::D

I'm going to learn from the responses to come :)
I'm with you on this Rick and showed it to the human metronome (wife and 20 year GFI) Amy and she wasn't sure what it meant either.
Can someone explain this?

xor999spin
05-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Hi All,

Thanks to Lisa, SloSpin and everybody for your very helpful advice, I will check out the LM website. I thought I had posted this under the RPM section so the question would pertain specifically to the Les Mills program. Sorry if this posted somewhere confusing folks, I so did not mean to:). Thanks again for all your comments, I sure do appreciate this forum. Peace, Jane

Paul S.
05-08-2011, 03:31 PM
If you know the tempo of the song in BPM and number of beats in a particular section of the music, it's easy to calculate how many seconds that section will take:

seconds = beats x 60 / BPM

For example, a common block of music is 32 beats, if it's at 128 BPM it will take exactly 32 x 60 / 128 = 15 seconds.

A possible complication is the distinction between counts and beats. I'm a BTS Group Power (barbell) instructor, so I'm not familiar with notation Jane mentioned. I know that what we call a 2/2 biceps curl - 2 counts down and 2 counts up - is actually 4 beats each way, 8 total.

Calculate seconds if it helps, but I think it really is best though to be able to hear the groups of beats in the music. This can be difficult for an instructor who has only taught non-formatted cycle classes. An instructor of most any other format should be able to help.

xor999spin
05-08-2011, 09:56 PM
Thanks Paul - that's the answer I was looking for.

Jane

Pink
05-09-2011, 04:56 AM
Hi All,

Thanks to Lisa, SloSpin and everybody for your very helpful advice, I will check out the LM website. I thought I had posted this under the RPM section so the question would pertain specifically to the Les Mills program. Sorry if this posted somewhere confusing folks, I so did not mean to:). Thanks again for all your comments, I sure do appreciate this forum. Peace, Jane

Jane, you posted your question exactly where you should have. No worries about confusing folks. I appreciate all the discussions, because I learn about things I'm not familiar with. It's all good. :)

Jpgirl
05-09-2011, 04:14 PM
I can clear it up for you but this is my main gripe about LM programs-they get so focused on the "fitness magic" they fail to teach brand new instructors the basics like how to learn chorey

In a nutshell:
Exercise music is written in 4/4 count-4 beats to a measure and the quarter beat gets the emphasis. So the count goes 1,2,3,4, Now the tempo or in exercise chorey is the Beats Per Minute. So 60 BPM has 60 beats per minute.
Now with this info you can put sentences together and for phrases.Think of 4/4 count as a word,-8 beats would be a sentence and when you string many 8 beat sentences together you get music phrases. Music is very mathmatical-it always repeats and to make it easier to learn chorey all you have to do is find "1" and count to 8 and then "1" comes around again. 1 repeats at beats 9,17,25,33-ect.

If you go to a site like Power music you'll see they have music in "32" count. That means there are 4-8 ct sentences to for a phrase. Now LM uses original music and they also cut and past so sometimes there are beats missing or added.

So in your chorey notes you may see something like this 1-8x8-which means there are 64 beats in that phrase. it's saying that there are 8 "sentences" with 8 beats each
1 1/2x8 means that there are 8 beats and also there are an additional 4 beats either before or after the 8 beats.

The trick is learning where "1" is. It took me a while to get the hang of it. Listen to as much music as you can. It's easier to listen to songs with words and singing usually starts on beat "1". You can also look at the timing in your chorey but I found that LM did not do a great job at putting the correct time down where beat one started so you could start counting. Once you get the hang of it-you won't even have to count every beat-you"ll be able to feel the first beat of a new sentence or phrase start. It's not the only way to learn chorey but for me it's the quickest and easiest way. I could usually learn a new release in 6 hours. I'd watch the video once-to get the nuance of it and then pull out the notes and music and memorize it-didnt even have to climb on the bike-which makes it easy to learn it anywhere. Good Luck

I still love IDC the best-my chorey-my music-my profiles=Life is Good

xor999spin
05-09-2011, 04:32 PM
Thanks Pink:) and again thanks for more of the wonderful posts, it makes so much more sense now. I think I just have to keep listening to music on a different level than what I have been used to doing. :rolleyes:

toffy
05-10-2011, 04:08 AM
If you know the tempo of the song in BPM and number of beats in a particular section of the music, it's easy to calculate how many seconds that section will take:

seconds = beats x 60 / BPM

For example, a common block of music is 32 beats, if it's at 128 BPM it will take exactly 32 x 60 / 128 = 15 seconds.

A possible complication is the distinction between counts and beats. I'm a BTS Group Power (barbell) instructor, so I'm not familiar with notation Jane mentioned. I know that what we call a 2/2 biceps curl - 2 counts down and 2 counts up - is actually 4 beats each way, 8 total.

Calculate seconds if it helps, but I think it really is best though to be able to hear the groups of beats in the music. This can be difficult for an instructor who has only taught non-formatted cycle classes. An instructor of most any other format should be able to help.

Definitely, you should not count either seconds or beats. You need to feel the music, feel the beats of the music. It's not easy, but if you hear and hear and hear music (mainly fitness music, witch was previouslly issued to be "square", i.e., composed by groups of 8 beats, and grouped from 4 to 4 groups of 8 beats, making a 32 musical sentence.

If (I would say, when) you can clearlly identify each musical sentence (i.e. each 32 group of beats) you can use it to change positions on the bike, either at the end of each 8 beats, and for bi changes, the end of eatch 32 beats.

The end of each 32 beats on a music is when something change on the music itself (begining of a instrumental part, or begining of chorus, stop of drum, start of a saxophone, etc).

It's not easy, you need to train your hear, it taks years....you need to hear a lot of music, counting the beats (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8) in your mind, and you will start to FEEL the music..After that..you'll teach without think of beats, or seconds, or whatever

Hope it helps

hally
05-10-2011, 07:22 AM
Now I am really confused. I am road cyclist first and indoor instructor second. I never taught anything but indoor cycle classes and do not use "fitness music" and just do not get this whole "square" thing. I just feel the music along with BPM and match it to my ride profile. Should I be concerned about this counting thing, am I missing something as an instructor? My classes are full but I am fairly new to teaching (9 months) and always looking for ways to improve my teaching.

Thanks

Jpgirl
05-10-2011, 09:38 AM
No Hally it's not necassary, but it will give your class more depth. Mostly we're talking about how to learn choreography like a Les Mills program or BTS. For freestyle-you don't have choreography as such. You have profiles and music. Now I will say-I have seen instructors who are strictly road cyclists and have been trained to teach IDC but have no other group exercise experience aren't quite as polished in their music selections-the music is background. But I have taken some of those instructors' classes and they are very good.
I became a group fitness instructor 18 years ago-the industry was transitioning from choreography to freestyle-so I learned both. As choreography became less popular (due to the expense of a club or group of clubs having to hire a choreographer) it fell to the instructor to make up their own chorey or truly freestyle -wing it. I don't know too many who just winged it. So when I transitioned to the cycling studio it was easier for me to make up my profile and then find music with the appropriate BPM and then further fine tune it by listening to the music and making micro changes according to mood and music changes. Jumps are a prime example-if you know how to feel the music ( or count) you can come in and out of the saddle and it seems right.

As a roadie-you understand tempo-you probably know what 80,90,110 RPMs feel like-you just know-and you probably have a range where you are the most comfortable and you can hang there all day. You don't actually count your legs you just feel it. It's the same thing with music.

xor999spin
05-10-2011, 10:54 AM
Hi Hally,

Oh Hally, don't worry you are doing great. I have been in Group Fitness for around ten years and have always taught free style. I ALWAYS steered clear of trainings/programs that were chorey based due to the fact of my struggle with coordination and staying on the beat. That is why when indoor cycling came along, I was sooo happy:D. However, since taking RPM, I can see there is more depth to my teaching. I always feel the music when I put together my free style ride. I use music to fit the profile thus it takes sometimes hours to make a profile but I feel it in that sense. RPM changed the way I need to hear the music that's all. It's all good, just different. I feel so lucky to see that there are so many ways to deliver a good cycling class. However, one thing never changes, it's the effort you put into designing the class that really makes the difference and that can mean studying chorey from another program LM or putting together your own profile. Your passion for cycling comes through and your "peeps" know it and appreciate it by attending your classes. I sure did not mean to cause any confusion or doubt with anybody's feel of the music. Keep Smiling ;) Jane

rick316
05-10-2011, 11:57 AM
Hi Hally,

Oh Hally, don't worry you are doing great. I have been in Group Fitness for around ten years and have always taught free style. I ALWAYS steered clear of trainings/programs that were chorey based due to the fact of my struggle with coordination and staying on the beat. That is why when indoor cycling came along, I was sooo happy:D. However, since taking RPM, I can see there is more depth to my teaching. I always feel the music when I put together my free style ride. I use music to fit the profile thus it takes sometimes hours to make a profile but I feel it in that sense. RPM changed the way I need to hear the music that's all. It's all good, just different. I feel so lucky to see that there are so many ways to deliver a good cycling class. However, one thing never changes, it's the effort you put into designing the class that really makes the difference and that can mean studying chorey from another program LM or putting together your own profile. Your passion for cycling comes through and your "peeps" know it and appreciate it by attending your classes. I sure did not mean to cause any confusion or doubt with anybody's feel of the music. Keep Smiling ;) Jane

I feel so much better reading this as well,after being personally attacked on this very thread for expressing similar feelings to Hally.(I'm still awaiting an apology)

hally
05-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Hitting the road with my ipod to listen to some music :D

Jpgirl
05-10-2011, 04:55 PM
LOL it's all good. After thinking about it today I will add this for Hally and Rick. Being a roadie first and an IDC second has an imbalance as does being a group fitness instructor and transitioning to IDC and never having ridden on the road. For me, when I take a class, I prefer instructors who also ride outside-there's a depth to the classes-they feel the road...indoors! :D

We recently had a group of us do the MS150 here in Texas. One of the instructors and a group of her students rode-I volunteered for the team. Everyone but one had a lot of experience riding outside-so we had to help this guy train-he's a phenominal rider BTW. After a couple of months training-I commented on how much better his form is in class-his comment-"Now I get IT". and he went on to say that while training outside he hears our voices from class-"settle in-see the top of the hill-make it smooth" ect. What great validation for what we love to do

rick316
05-10-2011, 05:23 PM
This is touching on a discussion that has bounced off of the Pedal-On walls many times over,whether you should ride outside to be a better indoor cycle instructor.I have tried to enjoy riding outside many times and I can put my hand on my heart and say,without doubt,I hate riding outside. I am unable to relax,I do not feel safe and I find zero motivation to even attach the front wheel to the rest of my bike.

That having been said,I did enjoy riding outside once,one time.Pink & Dr Pink were kind enough to put up with me for a week or so and I took them up on an offer to go for a road ride.We covered about 35 miles and I thoroughly enjoyed it, despite crashing and bouncing my head on the road. I felt safe on that ride,I was able to relax.

With all that on the table,I have road cyclist take my classes and they come back and tell me they hear me coaching them on their rides/races and it helps them tremendously. So I figure I must get it without riding outside. I feel the energy of the wheel,the rhythm of my legs,breathing,the roads we ride.I know what I'm doing and most are amazed I don't ride outside.

My take on it is this:did Sir Anthony Hopkins become a cannibal in order to play Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs? No,but you sure believed in him.

Apologies for hijacking the thread,I'll go back to sleep now. :)

Paul S.
05-10-2011, 07:14 PM
... since taking RPM, I can see there is more depth to my teaching. I always feel the music when I put together my free style ride. I use music to fit the profile thus it takes sometimes hours to make a profile but I feel it in that sense. RPM changed the way I need to hear the music that's all. It's all good, just different. I feel so lucky to see that there are so many ways to deliver a good cycling class. However, one thing never changes, it's the effort you put into designing the class that really makes the difference and that can mean studying chorey from another program LM or putting together your own profile....
I agree, taking the training to teach Group Power has made me so much more aware of how I use the music in my own cycling classes. Maybe more importantly, just they importance of being prepared for your class rather than just winging it. My club does not have Group Ride, the BTS cycling class, which may be just as well. I appreciate the variety of teaching a preformatted class in one format and my own in another.

Also have to say how much easier it has become to learn the preformatted classes. When I took the Group Power training, I thought how am I ever going to memorize the page of notation for each of the ten songs. But it soon all started making sense to me and now I look forward to learning each new release.

Jpgirl
05-11-2011, 07:49 AM
But Rick I can tell you get it- I've used some of your profiles before- and the fact that u actually tried it means you get it-you've felt the road resistance on your tires. As far as liking it- well that's another thing entirely. I'm a mediocre rider at best and there are days - especially here in Texas in the summer-that it's such a chore to pedal that I want to throw my bike into the ditch and never ride again. If you ever get down Houston way come ride with me- I'm a step just above beach cruiser and that's the way I like it

rick316
05-11-2011, 08:02 AM
But Rick I can tell you get it- I've used some of your profiles before- and the fact that u actually tried it means you get it-you've felt the road resistance on your tires. As far as liking it- well that's another thing entirely. I'm a mediocre rider at best and there are days - especially here in Texas in the summer-that it's such a chore to pedal that I want to throw my bike into the ditch and never ride again. If you ever get down Houston way come ride with me- I'm a step just above beach cruiser and that's the way I like it

You have no idea how much I appreciate you saying this,really.Thank you.Houston,eh.....hmmm.;)

b.c.kim
05-24-2011, 02:14 PM
I teach RPM and non RPM classes.
To answer the question about timing and the counts- a general rule is about 15 seconds for a 4X8 give or take. If it is a song 3, it will be a little closer to the 15 seconds for the 4X8 as the pace is slower than a song 6 speed work song where it may only be 10 seconds. The nice thing about the notes, you can use the real time on the left to calculate how much time each section is. It really is about listening to the music a lot and finding the musical cues (instruments, energy of song, quiet) for postion, pace or push changes.

xor999spin
05-24-2011, 11:22 PM
b.c. kim,

It's true the more I listen, listen and listen along with practice, practice and more practice, it is just something you begin to feel. I can see where it starts to just come together after many releases. I am just fairly new to the RPM program so it is taking awhile. I play the song so much in the car driving my thirteen year old daughter rolls her eyes and says "Oh no, not again, Mother how many times can you possibly listen to this song".
Jane

toffy
05-25-2011, 02:59 AM
b.c. kim,

It's true the more I listen, listen and listen along with practice, practice and more practice, it is just something you begin to feel. I can see where it starts to just come together after many releases. I am just fairly new to the RPM program so it is taking awhile. I play the song so much in the car driving my thirteen year old daughter rolls her eyes and says "Oh no, not again, Mother how many times can you possibly listen to this song".
Jane




You daughter must be patience... we spend so many time a day...a week, a month...driving that it's a excelent place to training the beats count....

I do the same....!!

etdurant
05-31-2011, 08:23 PM
I have done RPM at LM Quarterly Events, and although our club (where I am a BP instructor) does not license RPM, I still employ many of the RPM principles in my IC teaching. The idea of driving a workout with music has been an integral part of keeping IC classes fresh and exciting!

thosknox
09-08-2011, 07:25 AM
Paul, you lost me at the the = sign.

A very simple and usually reliable way to figure time in an rpm class using the 8 counts is to know that 4 x 8 (that means four eight counts) is about equal to 15 seconds. Therefore, 8 x 8 would be approximately 30 seconds. These time references are more reliable in the tracks that include pace work (two, four, five sometimes, and six).

I'm surprised that your trainer didn't mention this.

thosknox

P.S. Oops! Just realized that I missed a page of replies and one is very similar to what I've just written. Great minds....

marycartersmith2
03-23-2012, 01:56 PM
When I first starting teaching RPM I swear dreamed the songs I'd listened to them so much. You'll get to a point where you don't have to as much soon :)

xor999spin
03-26-2012, 10:05 PM
It's been a few releases now and you are so right, it gets alot easier. Man those beginning releases were tough though. :)

cycling_autotuneuser
05-24-2012, 01:09 AM
Loading a song into Virtual DJ will show you the BPM of it. It'll also allow you to change it.

williska
11-05-2012, 12:40 PM
This is a very helpful thread for a new RPM instructor. So glad I found it!

Marlamichelle11
10-27-2015, 02:48 PM
I agree! I've been taking RPM for years but just getting certified!!

shaggybuck
04-20-2018, 08:40 PM
Yup, I just got certified a few days ago, great program!