Seat Position fore and aft, seat height?

[LoriPodray]

Hi,
another silly question, i have seen conflicting
do you do set the seat ht first or the fore and aft?
secondly, i have seen in the MAD handout that the front foot is parallel and the front crank arm Parallel to floor,and that the string from the knee should fall the to the spindle, ok i get that but in Keiser, it says's that you should see 2/3 of your foot( is that because in one(mad dog) you are looking directly above the knee and in kieser you are sitting back in your riding positon?

also for finding the fore and aft..... i have seen where you bring your front leg up closer to your chest while on the pedal to a 90' knee to calf to thigh and that there is where your food should fall to the middle of the pedal or spindle,
hope you understand what i mean
thanks in advance for your thoughts on this
Lori

[SpinBob]

Lori,
I would suppose set up will depend on the bike you ride. If you teaching on Keiser bikes, I'd follow their set up protocols, I don't know how different they are from the JohnnyG style of Spinner that Schwinn and Star-Trac make.

As for which to set up first, I set up seat height first, because I gauge it by the top of the pelvic bone, before the person gets on the bike. Seat fore and aft is next, with the person sitting on the bike. I use elbow and knee alignment, with feet on the pedals at 3:00 and 9:00 parallel to the floor, to gauge proper seat position, fore and aft.

[Funhog]

The way it's taught at MDA orientation is the way it's done (for the most part) for an outdoor bicycle in a bike shop. It's referred to as KOPS, or Knee Over Pedal Spindle. Your patella should be positioned directly over the pedal spindle (when the butt is sitting properly on the saddle - anytime you move around on the saddle, it will change the position of the knee, so that must come first). The reason for this is when the knee is positioned correctly over the spindle, you are using the correct biomechanical advantage and relationship of your joints. The spindle is where the force is transferred to the crank to turn the pedals. With the proper relationship of the patella (i.e. where the quadriceps muscles all gather and exert their force) and the foot (positioned with the most powerful and solid part of the foot directly over the spindle) then you are more efficient and powerful in your pedaling, and also reduce chances of injury.

I am trying to picture how Kaiser is suggesting it. Sounds strange to me, because I can sit on my saddle and with a slight altering of my trunk position (legs and feet staying constant at parallel to the floor) I will see different amounts of my foot. It's not a reliable measurement subject to too much interpretation, and is more of a judgment call. Also, if you have short or long legs and a long trunk, that will affect how much of your foot that you see. It should be related to the length of the femur and tibia and the position of the foot on the pedal (the KOPS method), with a slight adjustment made if the trunk is very short.

Why would you "sit back in your riding position" according to Kaiser? You sit on a bike like you're supposed to sit on a bike. Indoors or out.

I'm not saying that "MDA" method is the only correct method. I am saying that the bike shop method is the correct method for best fit on most bikes.

(There are varying methods in cycling when you're talking about tri bikes, time trial etc, but I'm talking about the standard method, standard bikes).

[LoriPodray]

also, about sitting back, what i mean is that you must lean forward to see if your knee falls to the middle of the spindle, so i ment sit up in a regular riding position with a slight angle forward at the hips

the other method which a cordinator was showing once was that of the forward leg being brougt up to a 90" angle of the leg to the thigh foot on the pedal and that the was the knee suppose to fall at the spindle. Has anyone seen that, i may not have the idea exatly right

i see what you mean funhog about sitting on the right spot on the saddle is so important before you check the fore and aft

thankyou for your experianced opinions, they are priceless to me , as i want to prevent injury and put people in the best positon for them, so if they have a short trunk or armsthen you should put them forward of the middle of the spindle positon?

[EuroD]

also, about sitting back, what i mean is that you must lean forward to see if your knee falls to the middle of the spindle, so i ment sit up in a regular riding position with a slight angle forward at the hips

Lori, I'm a little confused by your statement. Are you saying that when a newer person gets on the bike that the check for them includes leaning forward to make sure the foot is placed correctly? I'd add here, having them feel for the right place from the getgo.

[LoriPodray]

i mean when they look down over thier knee to see if they hang a string down from the knee and if falls over the spindle, they have to lean over thier knee to look.
thanks all you for taking the time to reply