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Patrick
05-06-2006, 09:38 PM
Pedal-oners abroad,

At this moment I sit in my brother's apartment in Lexington, KY. I am finished with day two of three in the AFAA Personal Trainer Cert (I'll review at a later date).

This facility is the University's campus recreation center; i.e., no MDA. Instead, they have, "Group Cycling." While I have plead for the facility to adopt Johnny G., they refuse to require that their instructors be MDA cert'd. "Okay, I suppose," I said. I mean, as long as they have some certification, wouldn't they know how to teach a safe class? At least a little bit?

Unfortunately, much to my dismay, no. We were on dinner break from 6:00pm to 7:00pm yesterday; I finish eating, and pass the group fitness room, the doors to which are glass. I notice that a, "Group Cycling" class is underway, so I stop and watch for a spot or two.

In the three minutes I watched, I counted 9 contraindications. And they were serious ones, too. No small potatoes here. First off, as soon as I began watching, I noticed the class was on a "flat road" (or at least I hope to God that the instructor considered this a flat road). I quickly proceeded to check the cadence of the instructor, which clocked in at 128rpm. From here she moves them out of the saddle into a... standing climb, only the climb happened to be absent. No resistance was added, hands went to the ends of the handlebars, and the instructor visually and verbally cued (keep in mind I couldn't hear her) that the weight bear down on the handlebars. From here she began hovers. The elbows dropped to the handlebars, and her butt lowered to about 1 inch over the back of the saddle (we're talking majorly hyperextended scapular protraction). To add (potential) injury to... injury, she cues to eliminate bounce in the body. No motion. Freezing 1 inch over the back of the saddle. Elbows on the handlebars. Hands past the end of the handlebars. I was mortified.

And so it continued. I was very glad to see that they returned to the saddle, but the hands didn't move. Elbows remained on top of (and in the case of one of the (two) riders, elbows rested past) hand position 1. Kindof like the aero position. But (judgemental for a moment, pardon me) considering the instructor, I don't think that she was going for this. I think the resemblance to the aero position outside was a mere (and unfortunately oft-considered practical) coincidence.

From here the hands slid to the middle of the handlebars (halfway between hp2 and hp3). I was relieved to see this. But, my relief was short-lived, as the instructor cued the release of resistance. Keep in mind that none had been added since I watched, and we were already pushing 130rpm. So what happens? Cadence increases. Elbows back onto the handlebars, and (naturally), it's time to popcorn jump. Up for 2 beats (I could faintly hear the music playing), saddle for two beats. Only they came up into this hover-type position. At this point the cadence was absolutely out of control. I counted cadence of the instructor once again; 132. I wanted to die. I had to quit watching.

So let's see if we can't quantify this:
1. Hands in HP3 in the saddle.
2. Hovering right above the saddle.
3. Cadence above 110rpm.
4. Popcorn jumps.
5. Elbows on handlebars in saddle.
6. Elbows on handlebars out of saddle.
7. No resistance in the saddle.
8. No resistance out of the saddle.
9. Isolating and eliminating rhythm release from body out of saddle.

Patrick

gigi
05-06-2006, 09:42 PM
the nausea i get from reading about contraindications...
too bad you didn't get double-digits!

Brandy
05-06-2006, 09:46 PM
Hey...maybe if you had stuck around for a few more minutes she could have rounded it out with some "figure eights" and made it the even ten. :p I feel your pain Patrick...I was mortified with those two classes that I took at a Gold's in Arizona while I was visiting my parents. Sad thing was that it was a facility full of MDA instructors. :confused:

JFK
05-06-2006, 10:30 PM
When you're the lone wolf, it can be really hard. OTOH, instead of striding into town as the new law ;), you can just teach a really good class and educate your participants bit-by-bit. Never by putting down what anyone else does, but by letting them know why you're doing something and what's in it for THEM. That you want the best for them, that you want them to reap maximum benefits from minimum time, etc.

It's not an easy road to travel, but hey, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger (or, as the anti-inspirational poster says: whatever doesn't kill you just delays the inevitable. :D)

Cheeze
05-07-2006, 10:45 AM
At times it's good to attend a class from a bad instructor. It helps validate why you work so hard to keep things right. When I see something that isn't right - first congratulate myself for realizing it. Then I go through the following protocol to myself in my brain. "I know it's wrong - why is it wrong - how would I explain or show someone it's wrong - what would I do instead of this movement I just deemed CI". I am a visual learner. Seeing (and studying) someone doing a CI movement usually helps me disect why it is CI - and why I "just don't do it".

Making positives from negatives.

Cheeze

gigi
05-07-2006, 01:55 PM
At times it's good to attend a class from a bad instructor. It helps validate why you work so hard to keep things right. When I see something that isn't right - first congratulate myself for realizing it. Then I go through the following protocol to myself in my brain. "I know it's wrong - why is it wrong - how would I explain or show someone it's wrong - what would I do instead of this movement I just deemed CI". I am a visual learner. Seeing (and studying) someone doing a CI movement usually helps me disect why it is CI - and why I "just don't do it".

Making positives from negatives.

Cheeze

when you attend these classes, what's the "ettiquette", regarding participating in these contraindications? do you opt not to join the CI move and remain in the saddle?

Cheeze
05-07-2006, 04:22 PM
I don't know what protocol is - but I do not participate. I will either continue on with the last "legal" movement or observe safely from my saddle. IMO if I participate I am essentially endorsing the movement - which is the last thing I want to do.

Cheeze

RaffCycles
05-07-2006, 07:49 PM
I avoid the movement. I was asked by our coordinator to sit in on an audition. Push-ups, hovers, isolations, and more I couldn't believe it. This Johnny G certified instructor had all the bad moves. I didn't do a single one of them. I did the last "legal" movement and didn't particiate in any contraindicated moves.

gigi
05-08-2006, 01:35 PM
ok, that's what i have done in the past. especially if i am at a club with participants who know i do not use CIs in my class. no way i am losing my credibility for jumping on the bandwagon.

thanks for the advice cheeze and raff

JoyofSpin
05-08-2006, 01:58 PM
I agree:D ! Just don't do it! And, if there are riders who know me they get a stern glance to not follow as well! - Joy

gigi
05-08-2006, 02:00 PM
I agree:D ! Just don't do it! And, if there are riders who know me they get a stern glance to not follow as well! - Joy

haha! love that joy...

megale3
05-08-2006, 03:01 PM
Sometimes its lack of knowledge current industry standards, Trying to make a class harder and exciting for people, not understanding realistic road riding and competition to get numbers in the class start the cycle of these unrealistic movements.
More or less it may not kill you today but if the potential be there will be some pain to pay later and numbers that actually drop do to the intimidating environment that ballistic cycling is. Patrick pick your battles wisely the spot about showing by example speaks volumes and show professionalism if I was you wait to say something when that instructor jumps off the bike to turn someone’s resistance knob up - I think that is a good time but then I am sensitive. :D

Robert
05-09-2006, 03:46 AM
Reading about these things really makes me cringe, especially the ones that no IC format condones (such as the dropping down in between handlebars and saddle). Seeing them makes me worry for the future of IC and the health of the participants. If allowed to spread, there will be no fitness benefits and IC bikes will go the way of the hula hoop.

I have a rule that I will not bad-mouth other instructors. But, when asked why I don't do press ups on the bike, I won't hesitate to educate them! Yesterday, I was warned by one member that he would not be doing hovers (as he was recovering from a hip injury, funnily enough! :rolleyes: ), to which I replied, that's OK neither will I :D

marnster
05-10-2006, 12:31 PM
I just found this posted under the "Cycling" category of another website and had to post it here. I thought this particular thread was appropriate, and I am in NO WAY advocating this, but wanted to share what other instructors are teaching.

"We are fortunate enough to have full equipment in our cycling room including matts, steps, and medicine balls. In order to get some upper body toning in while still keeping the heart rate up and legs moving, I hand out medicine balls (6-10 pounds) to my participants. We do bicep curls, tricep extensions, oblique twists, bench press (push ball straight out from shoulders) and any other movement you can do with a ball to work the upper body while still pedaling at a medium tension. This gives a great total body work out.
To add some resistance to a regular cycling class, have them stand while holding the medicine ball in one hand, or sit and work on balance and tight core muscles.( :eek: )I also use the idea of getting off the bike to do push-ups and tricep dips. My class loves the extra strength training and it makes the time go really fast!"

All I can think of is...Barnum & Bailey's 3 Ring Circus... :rolleyes:

Cheeze
05-10-2006, 12:39 PM
Not long before you will see exercise rooms in mini-marts.

Patrick
05-10-2006, 08:16 PM
I just found this posted under the "Cycling" category of another website and had to post it here. I thought this particular thread was appropriate, and I am in NO WAY advocating this, but wanted to share what other instructors are teaching.

"We are fortunate enough to have full equipment in our cycling room including matts, steps, and medicine balls. In order to get some upper body toning in while still keeping the heart rate up and legs moving, I hand out medicine balls (6-10 pounds) to my participants. We do bicep curls, tricep extensions, oblique twists, bench press (push ball straight out from shoulders) and any other movement you can do with a ball to work the upper body while still pedaling at a medium tension. This gives a great total body work out.
To add some resistance to a regular cycling class, have them stand while holding the medicine ball in one hand, or sit and work on balance and tight core muscles.( :eek: )I also use the idea of getting off the bike to do push-ups and tricep dips. My class loves the extra strength training and it makes the time go really fast!"

All I can think of is...Barnum & Bailey's 3 Ring Circus... :rolleyes:

I find it very funny that they call the "bench press" pushing the ball straight out in front of you... That's about 95% deltoid, 5% pectorals. Stupidity. It just simply amazes me.

As for all this other crap, I don't even know what to think. All I know is that after 9 & 1/2 months of teaching at Louisville Athletic Club I finally have 100% of my students sub-110 rpm, using some resistance, keeping their hands out of HP3 in the saddle, and have wiped the slate clean of bounciness in the saddle. And in 2 & 1/2 months I get to do it all over again.... :rolleyes:

But, you know, today after some reflection on it (very brief reflection, that is- I was teaching at the time and I just noticed that all my students were in great form on a seated flat, which, as you all know, happens once in a lifetime (if we're lucky)...), I have realized that this is an also an opportunity to advance myself in the corporate subculture at this facility; being the most qualified (or the only one really qualified at all...) and (God willing) having my professionalism come across to students will allow me to advance myself quite quickly in the UK biosphere, if you will.

I do realize though that cock of the walk is neither a position had at once, nor in many cases is it a position held in high esteem by other instructors, especially those with whom you disagree. I intend to tread lightly and keep to myself to some extent my first several months.

BrusselsSpin
05-11-2006, 01:29 AM
this all just sounds so much like my club. they're now about to hold their own education weekend for members who want to become instructors - not run by any recognised name, no CE, no nothing. do the weekend, taken by existing instructors, and start to lead classes. all those contraindications and more are going to be passed on, everyone's going to be teaching rides that consist of music-led choreography to one song, move on to the next song .... i'm so depressed and feeling very outnumbered and ready to leave. but wider than my own situation, is this not worrying for the future of IDC?

Robert
05-11-2006, 03:34 AM
I am here sitting open-mouthed in total shock. I thought I'd heard them all but this is suerly the most pathetic attempt to avoid cycling I have ever read.

Cycling does nothing for the upper body? Try a 4 hour standing climb up a 12% gradient. Granted not possible to replicate in the spinning studio but cycling is cycling - if you don't like it, do something else. Why won't these cretins get it through their thick heads and stop teaching cycling altogether?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:

rick316
05-11-2006, 04:11 AM
But, you know, today after some reflection on it (very brief reflection, that is- I was teaching at the time and I just noticed that all my students were in great form on a seated flat, which, as you all know, happens once in a lifetime (if we're lucky)...), I have realized that this is an also an opportunity to advance myself in the corporate subculture at this facility; being the most qualified (or the only one really qualified at all...) and (God willing) having my professionalism come across to students will allow me to advance myself quite quickly in the UK biosphere, if you will.

I do realize though that cock of the walk is neither a position had at once, nor in many cases is it a position held in high esteem by other instructors, especially those with whom you disagree. I intend to tread lightly and keep to myself to some extent my first several months.

Ok...what? Particularly the UK bit,what?:confused:

britspin
05-11-2006, 05:51 AM
I think he is talking about the Eden Project in Cornwall, altho I did not know they did classes there..bit warm in the tropical zone I would have thought.
Did I just ruin another thread?

JFK
05-11-2006, 05:58 AM
Not to worry you Brit-centric folks, but he may be referring to the University of Kentucky. :)

Patrick
05-11-2006, 06:38 AM
Not to worry you Brit-centric folks, but he may be referring to the University of Kentucky. :)

My mistake... University of Kentucky.

Patrick
05-11-2006, 06:41 AM
Ok...what? Particularly the UK bit,what?:confused:

I think I can make great professional strides in this facility due to a lack of other qualified instructors, being overqualified, being the most experienced etc., but I don't want to press my luck and make a nuisance of myself by demanding all instructors stop push-ups on the bike because Jonathan Goldberg said so.

That better? :D

Patrick

britspin
05-11-2006, 06:45 AM
Not the Eden Project then?

Patrick
05-11-2006, 06:54 AM
Not the Eden Project then?

I'd say no, but I can't be certain of that.... I'm unbeknownst to this "eden project."

Patrick

britspin
05-11-2006, 07:31 AM
Google Eden Project...Cornwall, or go to www.edenproject.com (http://www.edenproject.com).
Just out of interest, since I raised it.
If you ever get to this part of the world, I recommend a visit, and The Lost Gardens Of Heligan.

Robert
05-11-2006, 08:27 AM
The Lost Gardens Of Heligan.

Wasn't that a book by Arthur C Clarke ? :p

marnster
05-11-2006, 08:31 AM
That is really cool! Take the 3D tour! :)

spinguru
05-11-2006, 01:21 PM
Patrick --

I totally empathize with your experience -- it must be an epidemic on University campuses, because it's rampant at the University fitness center where I work out (I work on campus -- my regular full time job). I do not teach here, because I work a regular full time job on campus and want my lunch time and after-work work-outs to be peaceful and for me :). Normally, I spin at lunchtime, and while the instructor isn't great, she does at least teach a safe class.

Last Friday I had a project at work that kept me from spinning at lunchtime. So, I gave the schedule a check and see that there's a 5:15 class right after work. So I go, never having ridden this time slot before, and hit the cycling studio. There are a few people waiting for class to start, warming up, setting up bikes, etc., and they proceed to tell me what a great instructor (let's call him Chuck) is and how he's the best instructor at the center, etc. I'm really looking forward to class.

In comes Chuck, jumps up on the bike and we're off to the races -- literally. I counted every single contraindicated movement I know about in the first 10 minutes of class. I think he cued an increase in resistance once. I kept waiting for someone to do a face plant as he cued high speed standing climbs with push-ups......It was a nightmare.

I rode the class, basically doing my own Strength class and did not participate in the craziness. After class, one of the other riders actually said to me "Don't worry -- you'll be able to keep up with him once you get stronger". My jaw simply went to my chest. I couldn't say anything -- I just shook my head and left.

I did mention it to the group EX director, who I know from around campus. Her response was that the students love him and he fills the class. End of discussion.

I truly believe that you can only do what you think is right for yourself, both in your own ride and for your students, in your teaching. We know better, but that doesn't mean our riders are receptive to hearing it. Same old story, different day.

EuroD
05-11-2006, 01:47 PM
I too feel your pain. I teach at a university, and I am one of two nationally certified cycling instructors! Another couple are roadriders (yes, I remember the thread). Yep, get used to it, most of the instructors are students and are not certified by a national organization. Some of ours take an internal course - our last intake are quite frankly hopeless!

I was appalled, when I found out but it's not required as they are in a so called closed environment. This is why they have no idea about correct form, how to apply technique, and they are the ones who are coming to class to steal music and ideas.

It is something that you just have to live with, but know that you are doing the right thing for your participants - they will appreciate it, trust me!

kszspin
05-11-2006, 03:46 PM
After class, one of the other riders actually said to me "Don't worry -- you'll be able to keep up with him once you get stronger". My jaw simply went to my chest. I couldn't say anything -- I just shook my head and left.


Now aren't you so glad you were able to have that member identify YOUR weakness??? :eek: Better get to work on your speed! Strength be damned....let's go 130, no 140 rpms! Wheeeeeeee :D

megale3
05-11-2006, 04:47 PM
Its a beautiful thing to watch people bounce uncontrolably in the sadle isn't it. :D

gigi
05-11-2006, 07:20 PM
After class, one of the other riders actually said to me "Don't worry -- you'll be able to keep up with him once you get stronger". My jaw simply went to my chest. I couldn't say anything -- I just shook my head and left.


my jaw also just dropped reading this!


I did mention it to the group EX director, who I know from around campus. Her response was that the students love him and he fills the class. End of discussion.

this is depressing. whatever happened to directors promoting safety??

Robert
05-12-2006, 03:56 AM
After class, one of the other riders actually said to me "Don't worry -- you'll be able to keep up with him once you get stronger".

Hahahahahaha

Maybe we should start challenging these instructors: my class vs. your class, out on the road, 60Km including climbs.

They, with their high revs with barely any resistance, going at 5kph. Us, with our strength and interval training, aiming to do a sub-2hr time.

That would show them what really is fitness! :D