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raptor
01-06-2006, 12:23 AM
No, this isn't about Carmichael Training Systems, but I think Mr. C would agree. The linked article is a semi-technical discussion about periodization and getting the most out of your cycling training.

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/base.htm

I've been leaning intuitively toward this approach for many months now. When I do what I call an endurance ride, I push it towards the upper regions of the aerobic zone.

Questions I have to mull over and eventually stumble onto the answers to (sorry about the grammar):

How does this "MP20" approach relate to non-cyclists... like a kickbox fanatic or a runner?

What is the required level of fitness to work at these higher aerobic intensities? I mean, ANYONE can "work as hard as you can for 20 minutes," at least theoretically.

What are my riders missing if I always push them to these higher efforts? Based on the article, not much, at least physiologically.

Lynn

Patrick
01-06-2006, 07:57 AM
No, this isn't about Carmichael Training Systems, but I think Mr. C would agree. The linked article is a semi-technical discussion about periodization and getting the most out of your cycling training.

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/base.htm

I've been leaning intuitively toward this approach for many months now. When I do what I call an endurance ride, I push it towards the upper regions of the aerobic zone.

Questions I have to mull over and eventually stumble onto the answers to (sorry about the grammar):

How does this "MP20" approach relate to non-cyclists... like a kickbox fanatic or a runner?

What is the required level of fitness to work at these higher aerobic intensities? I mean, ANYONE can "work as hard as you can for 20 minutes," at least theoretically.

What are my riders missing if I always push them to these higher efforts? Based on the article, not much, at least physiologically.

Lynn

Lynn,

At first, I was mighty confused by MP20 as well. I did notice one sentence that gave me a glimpse as to the relative intensity of MP20- "The maximum stimulus for mitochondrial production as a whole appears to exist at the edge of aerobic power or MP20,"--- this leads me to believe that one's MP20 is their anaerobic threshold, or app. 85% of your max heart rate. Also, I wouldn't worry about the "20 minutes" thing; that seems to be only applicable to him. And then I thought, "This guy is a crazy good cyclist-- there's no way I can ride AT longer than him!" but then I considered the fact that he may have worked his AT up much higher than 85%MHR through training. He may still be aerobic at 90%MHR--- who knows.

MP20 still applies to other gym-goers, especially runners. They too are endurance athletes, so they would be doing the same thing in their training, just on foot. The principle of training would remain the same. Also, for someone who likes to participate in kickboxing, they are still going to benefit from an amplified MP20 in that it will allow them to work lower intensities in a kickboxing class easier--- in other words, they'll be able to do sub-MP20 workouts and they won't be as difficult, so they may be able to make gains as far as their intensity.

I don't agree with Spinning "endurance" rides anyway. I think they are ineffective. I believe that if you are riding at that low of an intensity, the ride needs to be much longer. Like Willett said in his article, you can make gains from riding long times at lower intensities. An hour is not long enough for such an easy class. As well, the part about staying on a seated flat for 40-60 minutes is ludicrous. I think most of us can agree that when Johnny G. designed it, he would concur that the concern is more for the HR parameters than the mode (i.e. seated flat)--- I think there should be other positions used. But that's another story alltogether.

raptor
01-10-2006, 02:36 AM
My concern with other endurance athletes is the weight-bearing nature of other activities. It's "easy" to go as hard as you can on a bike for 5-20 minutes, and repeat it as much as you want, with recovery as needed. Assuming you feed & water your body properly, the only damage you're likely to get is a sore butt.

But doing the same volume & intensity while running, kickboxing, speedskating, etc. could be begging for any of thousands of kinds of injury.

Maybe we should tell all those people to take up biking. :)

Lynn